Might as well dig a hole and bury the money

[Grundy]

Iraq is just stealing our money.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/front2453634.0680555557.html

[Noleader]

Funniest part about it is not only are they stealing our money but they are blaming us for it.

[Sayj]

Funniest part about it is not only are they stealing our money but they are blaming us for it.

If the U.S. had wanted to prevent it, they would have.

[Swifty_Johnson]

"Our funds are under the control of ignorant people," Al Amiri said.

Hehe, welcome to a democracy!!!

Swifty

[Aelfwine]

Hehe, welcome to a democracy!!!

Swifty

And you support the most ignorant.

[Noleader]

If the U.S. had wanted to prevent it, they would have.

First people yell cause we were controling everything... then we turn over control to the people then it becomes our problem when they abuse it. Sayj we do not have qa magic 8 ball that tells us when people are doing wrong.

[Swifty_Johnson]

And you support the most ignorant.

I've never supported you.

First people yell cause we were controling everything... then we turn over control to the people then it becomes our problem when they abuse it.

Yup, you nailed it on the head Noleader. They wanted local control, and now that they have it, it's still our fault.

Swifty

[Aelfwine]

F You. Boom had it right in his post from yesterday.

[Sayj]

First people yell cause we were controling everything... then we turn over control to the people then it becomes our problem when they abuse it. Sayj we do not have qa magic 8 ball that tells us when people are doing wrong.

The united states doesn't necessarily want all good all the time. It's like how we let drug dealers continue dealing so we can continue to observe them in action. True, sometimes we don't know what's going on. But I'd bet money that they know what's going on there, and this is just something that is part of a master plan or two.

[Swifty_Johnson]

F You. Boom had it right in his post from yesterday.

Oh, I'm sorry. You put that stupid statement out there, what did you expect me to say? You honestly think I'd let you have a free swipe at me?

Swifty

[Aelfwine]

Only speaking the truth. You're going down with the ship. You support the Bush administration even when conservative support for him is crumbling. The only people who say he is doing a great job in Irag and with Katrina are 1) hardcore republicans who would never turn on someone they supported(kinda like Bush not ever firing anyone) and 2) crazy christians who will support anyone they think will get judges on the bench who will overturn Roe vs Wade. I think even the crazy christians will start turning soon since it doesnt look like Roberts is their guy. I think you love Bush.

You are so stubborn you have pretty much driven away the best posters on this board; Boom and Allison. They stop in every now and then, but for the most part it doesnt seem like they want to piss away their time arguing(it is arguing; you don't debate) with a brick wall. Who needs to read your posts anymore. They are so predictable. You never say anything not expected. Its like you got a book for conservatives telling what the correct answer to every possible question out there is. And you believe its all true.

[PoxTheSmall]

I actually do debate with Swifty all the time. I've gotten frustrated as a result of some heated debates, but that's the way debates can be...its nice to see views that can be polar opposites of my own.

[Aelfwine]

I actually do debate with Swifty all the time. I've gotten frustrated as a result of some heated debates, but that's the way debates can be...its nice to see views that can be polar opposites of my own.

Not when they are polar opposite 95% of the time. Thats not debating. Its baiting someone into arguing(I think Swifty has admitted to doing this from time to time in the past).

[Noleader]

Only thing I dislike is when people ignore the core of your post just to try and destory your point of view on the filler text.

[Post]

"I actually do debate with Swifty all the time. I've gotten frustrated as a result of some heated debates, but that's the way debates can be..."

No "official" (official as Toastmasters or school can be) debate that I've been involved in, has ever used their friends or told someone else to "go look it up" as references. I mean, in a literal sense, lots of things that we don't real-world think of as "debating" is considered debating by dictionary definition, but at what point do we draw the line and say, "ok, that's not real debate there?"

For example, the counter to my statements will probably not be explaining why those things are "good" references in a debate or even justifying them, but rather, how I've - at one time, to prove a point that was lost, and furthermore, I explicitly stated my usage was invalid - used a similar "bad" reference. See? That, I do not consider debate. Not "good" debate, atleast, which is what he's really talking about when he compares "arguing" to "debate".

[Swifty_Johnson]

You support the Bush administration even when conservative support for him is crumbling. The only people who say he is doing a great job in Irag and with Katrina

Ah, so I see, I must be a sheep huh. Did it ever dawn on you that I don't think it's the Federals governments job to don the superman outfit and come save the day all the time? No, I guess not.

How many of these people that are arguing with me ever lived through a hurricane and actually see what happens? I have, I seen these things first hand. I've seen a large ficus tree uproot and squish a poor car that the owner parked underneath. I know the power of hurricanes, I've seen it first hand. I've seen the response first hand, I see how things operate. How many of the people here have? How many of the talking heads have?

People are speaking with their hearts and not their minds. I'm willing to bet that if all the people on the convention center were white, they would not have gotten the coverage that it did. People would be saying "why didn't they listen to the government and have their three days of supplies". What is a disgrace is Katrina is being used for political gains, nothing else. Blanco has plenty of questions to answer, but because she is a female democrat her mistakes are being overlooked be the MSM.

I am now scared that the Federal government is going to use Blanco's screwup to seize even more people. I am bewildered at the total lack of personal responsibility that I see. We are becoming to dependent on the feds, and that is going to cause even greater disasters down the road. We need to become LESS dependent on the feds and more dependent on ourselves and state and local governments.

My wife spent a year in Iraq, I also have an AKO account and I can see internal military documents on what is happening in Iraq. Nothing top secret but I do see military press released that the MSM never touch. The ones about schools being opened, hospitals being opened, power generation going up, basically all the good things that you never hear about.

When my wife and her comrades talked about Iraq, I got a totally different picture than that I hear from our MSM. So, who am I going to believe, the people who are actually there, or the talking heads?

Swifty

[Aelfwine]

Ah, so I see, I must be a sheep huh. Did it ever dawn on you that I don't think it's the Federals governments job to don the superman outfit and come save the day all the time? No, I guess not.

Yea, alot of the times you do come off like that, at least to me. Maybe it should not be the federal government's job to save everyone, but when a disaster strikes, and they have been preparing for disaster to strike for the last 4 years, and this is the response that happens, how can anyone have confidence that they will not be just as bad responding to a major terror attack. You can blame the local governemt, the state governemt, congress, etc, etc, but in the end, Bush is the main guy. The buck stops somewhere and it is at the white house.

What really gets me about people like you, is that with Clinton, almost everything was blamed on him, even things that are still happening today. With Bush it is never his fault. It is always someone else's fault.

How many of these people that are arguing with me ever lived through a hurricane and actually see what happens? I have, I seen these things first hand. I've seen a large ficus tree uproot and squish a poor car that the owner parked underneath. I know the power of hurricanes, I've seen it first hand. I've seen the response first hand, I see how things operate. How many of the people here have? How many of the talking heads have?

You keep speaking like a expert on hurricanse. I call bullshit. I have been through them too, though not to the extent of Katrina or Andrew. Two years ago a hurricane hit the Chesapeake bay and put parts of the town I live in(I am on high ground) under 8 feet of water. And you have never been in the middle of a hurricane disaster like what Katrina caused. So stop acting like you have the right to speak about it and everyone else should stfu and bow down to your mighty intellect.

What is a disgrace is Katrina is being used for political gains, nothing else.


And the people you back the most are trying to use it for political gains as well. Bush's speech, his (insincere) acceptance of responsibilty of the Federal repsonse, all of it was for political gains. These are politicians. What do you expect? There as bad as used car salesmen.

[Swifty_Johnson]

Maybe it should not be the federal government's job to save everyone, but when a disaster strikes, and they have been preparing for disaster to strike for the last 4 years, and this is the response that happens,

The have been preparing for disaster to strike for 4 years, and they met their plans. Unfortunately Blanco started a turf war and we saw what the result was. It's the states job to prepare that state for disasters. The first responders come from the STATE not the Feds.

The buck stops somewhere and it is at the white house.

Wrong, for LA it's the governor's mansion. It was her job to prepare the state, and it was her job to work with the feds. She failed on both. We have a separation of powers in the United States. Blanco refused Federal help in taking over, until she hands over the authority it's a state issue.

What really gets me about people like you, is that with Clinton, almost everything was blamed on him, even things that are still happening today.

Clinton was blamed for things he did. When Hurricanes stuck no one went around blaming him for it.

So stop acting like you have the right to speak about it and everyone else should stfu and bow down to your mighty intellect.

No, everyone else shouldn't STFU, but as I have pointed out several time is that the government has NEVER promised to deliver food and water in 24 hrs. I pointed out that it was the Red Cross and Salvation Army that has always arrived first with AID before the Feds showed up.

Yet everyone keeps claiming that they Feds should have responded quicker, and yet offer ZERO proof to back up their claims. While I have never been through something the scale of Katrina, I have seen the system work on "lesser" hurricanes. And people keep talking about the "scale" of Katrina. When does a system work even faster when there is more destruction? Katrina should have caused a longer Federal response due to the massive damage to the area that was hit, instead it got a faster one.

Bush's speech, his (insincere) acceptance of responsibilty of the Federal repsonse, all of it was for political gains.

Bush acceptance of responsibility is to get the politics of the finger pointing out of the way and jump start the rebuilding. It was a bold move, and if it's properly investigated the blame will not fall on the Feds, but on the state and local officials.

Swifty

[Aelfwine]

The have been preparing for disaster to strike for 4 years, and they met their plans.

If your right, then thats fucking sad.

[Sayj]

It would be interesting to really learn what "homeland security" means to most people. Such a huge chunk of our tax dollars goes towards homeland security, but I really don't know what we've got to "show for it." if the money is mostly used to fight terrorism, then they really shouldn't have used "homeland security" for the department's name. if we want the homeland to be secure, we have to do more than be ready for a terrorist attack....

[Swifty_Johnson]

If your right, then thats fucking sad.

No, what's sad is everyone throwing their expectations on the government without looking at what the government really was offering.

http://www.ready.gov/water_food.html

One gallon of water per person per day, for drinking and sanitation.

Children, nursing mothers, and sick people may need more water.

If you live in a warm weather climate more water may be necessary.

Store water tightly in clean plastic containers such as soft drink bottles.

Keep at least a three-day supply of water per person.

Store at least a three-day supply of non-perishable food.

http://www.fema.gov/areyouready/hurricanes.shtm

You should evacuate under the following conditions:

If you are directed by local authorities to do so. Be sure to follow their instructions.

If you live in a mobile home or temporary structure—such shelters are particularly.

hazardous during hurricanes no matter how well fastened to the ground.

If you live in a high-rise building—hurricane winds are stronger at higher elevations.

If you live on the coast, on a floodplain, near a river, or on an inland waterway.
If you feel you are in danger.

So the government is telling people, have three days food and water, and if you are living in on flood plain and a hurricane is coming, get out of dodge.

What's sad is people don't listen, they don't prepare, and then they expect the Federal government to come to the rescue. When the government is bound by the laws of physics and bureaucracy they scream to high heaven.

Swifty

[Aelfwine]

No, whats fucking sad is the amount of money these assholes take from us to fund these "neccessary departments" like the Department of Homeland Security and FEMA, and the best they can do before a disaster is offer fucking advice you have to search out for yourself on the internet. I know some of this info was broadcast to NO before the hurricane hit, but there wont be any broadcasting of this before a terror attack or a earthquake.

Do you have 3 days of water Swifty? I guarantee less then 20% of homes in america have 3 days of water stored, and those that do, it aint because they have it for a disaster. Its because they dont trust their water supply.

[Swifty_Johnson]

Do you have 3 days of water Swifty? I guarantee less then 20% of homes in america have 3 days of water stored, and those that do, it aint because they have it for a disaster. Its because they dont trust their water supply.

Yes, I have 3 days of water, and at least 7 days, maybe more of hurricane supplies for me and my wife. I also have several 2 liter bottles that I fill up when a hurricane comes even close. For a big storm, I fill the bathtub up with water so I'll have something to wash up with and flush the toilets.

necessary departments" like the Department of Homeland Security and FEMA, and the best they can do before a disaster is offer fucking advice you have to search out for yourself on the internet. I know some of this info was broadcast to NO before the hurricane hit, but there wont be any broadcasting of this before a terror attack or a earthquake.

First and foremost we have the primary responsibility for our own personal safety. Don't rely on the Federal Government, as their goals is to protect the community, not every single American. As some people around N.O. found out when they saw trucks of supplies tear through their small communities on the way to N.O. I live in a small community so I am expecting that if a big one hits this area, we'll be one of the last ones to see any sort of aid in the area.

You need to be prepared before an advent, not after. If you live in a big city like N.Y. or in an area known for disasters, it's wise to stock up on basic supplies.

Swifty