At what point is the new energy bill not doing its job?

[Post]

I'm kind of looking for a flag that states, "ok, this is not working right." Not so much a cutoff (so you can't go to the other side, and directly state "ok, this is working right"). Since there's got to be a debatable grey area, but the point where even the people supporting it should turn around.

To me, the obvious turnaround point should be if their profit to expenditure ratio doesn't go down, and they still get kickbacks that they wouldn't have had there been no new energy bill. I mean, they should be getting incentives for doing something, right? And wouldn't "doing something" mean, if nothing else, that they proportionally spent more than they previously did?

For example, let's say they had to spend $3 for every 10$ they took in. If they get any kickbacks from this new energy bill, shouldn't they have to spend more than $3 for every $10 they took in? They can still make more profit, of course - but they have to still proportionately spend more. So, even if they sold 10x more $10 increments, it's still costing them more than $3 per $10 increment to produce that.

Now, I haven't looked at any forecasts or any of the actual numbers whatsoever, so this isn't a liberal trap or anything like that. Who knows? Maybe that's exactly how it's put together. I'm just wondering before any of the actual results and the following spin comes out, would everyone agree to atleast that point.

[Hammer]

I have to say i'm pretty ignorant of the content of the bill. It's been four years since it was introduced and I got the impression it was loaded up like a highway bill full of incentives that were never asked for but will be used none the less. The press spent too much of it's time focusing on whether ANWAR would be in or out of this bill. When it was introduced I was under the impression that it was mainly about infrastructure improvements to the grid and getting some new nuclear plants built. Mostly to help us avoid another huge blackout by accident or terror attack. It also had some conservation measures and the usual goodies for farmers and coal miners. Too be honest i'm not sure what's in there now.

So, it's going to be hard to measure success or failure without some hard goals. It's like homeland security, it's working until we get attacked again, then it will be judged a complete failure. So I guess we wait for another blackout.

[Post]

Well, I do agree that there's a hard-to-tell area, I just think that it's above the point of expenditures proportionately going up. Anything below that, and I'm at a loss as to how it could be debated as anything other than a failure.

If that's not happening, then how could they be getting kickbacks without actually having the cost burden of looking for alternative fuel sources to offset it? I can think of a few ways, but none of them are honest, and none of them should be rewarded via the new energy bill.

Unless the new energy bill's goal isn't really to incentivize looking for alternative fuel sources, of course.

[Tammarion]

Its the law of unintended consequences. Take California gasoline prices. According to an article in the Slate, gas companies vigorously resisted the new emissions standards, saying how they couldn't meet them, or even if they could it would be too expensive. Then someone found out that those refineries that stayed in business after the change could basically set their own price for 'california summer blend' gas because production would go way down, and no one outside of california would make the stuff.

In public policy whats bad can become good, and vice versa, in the blink of an eye.

[Swifty_Johnson]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N26189154.htm

Here are some of the details in the bill.

Swifty

[mctana]

Increased energy supply is a must both for domestic consumption and international economic growth (the only way out of poverty). So, I generally am not offended that **gasp** power companies profit on energy.

But man alive, the Sierra Club came banging on the door to my condo up in arms over the new bill asking me to sign petitions and stuff. I kinda told them off because they were preaching hyper greenie propoganda. JFC, I occassionally give them money even - don't people realize that radical ideologies don't sell?

[Roscoes_C&W]

I really don't think gasoline is that expensive. I'm not up in arms about it. I have a 4-cylinder pick up truck that I specifically baught for the fuel efficiency factor and because I could pick up shit from Home Depot or lumber or refrigerators or anything. I could have easily gotten a big V-8 truck and been paying twice as much for gas then I'd probably have an issue. But that's just it, I picked the vehicle to save me money so I wouldn't have this headache. Now you have a bunch of people who went and got big mf'n gas hogs to be cool and trendy and they crying. People just need ot adjust and even if they don't they can still afford gasoline. Even with outragously crazy mortgages around here people can still afford to pay for gas. Just manage money better, most people don't do shit about money management. Shit, just by using coupons at the grocery store and planning your meals according to whats on sale and what coupons u have you can save enough money to pay for gas for the month. Or don't eat out as much, home made food tastes better anyways.