/as Guidelines (notes from GM Meeting)

[Buffmomma]

Alright we had most guilds represented here-both CD's (Carpe Diem & Clan Destiny), Brute Squad, The Ministry, Chaotic Order, Maelstrom, Moonlit Thorns, Restless Souls, Veritas Orbis, Fianna, Mith Mire, Mystical Knights, Allaidh B`uir, Dragon's Bane, & Dark Ascension.

*Idea was brought up of having /as officers - Basically all GM's are already officers of the alliance. All GM's and officers of guilds in the alliance deserve respect from all guildies.

*Guildies need to be monitored and reprimanded when necessary. If someone asks you to stop, stop. No questions asked, no smart remarks. A basic guideline - 1st offense - warning; 2nd offense - /as privs taken away short period; 3rd offense - booted from guild. If the third step isn't taken and a GM allows a person to freely spam and bother /as it becomes an alliance issue and removal of that guild would have to be discussed.

*Some basic chit-chat is to be expected - within reason - nothing vulgar or offensive, no personal history or personal interactions should be discussed - ie the party on friday, the new gf/bf, spouses, how much beer you're going to drink this weekend - if your /gu wants to hear about it cool but /as isn't the place. If you bring up something or ask a question and there begins a discussion about it and discussion goes on for *basic guideline* 5 minutes - make a chat grp about it or go to /tells. If you bring up something and someone /sends you that it's not appropriate STOP IMMEDIATELY! If you don't think you did anything wrong ask your GM about it later. Keep this in mind - /as is a social interaction and should be likened to dinner in a restaurant. If you want to let the world know about your herpes do you htink the other diners are interested would be the question you should ask yourself. THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK! And try to use common sense! GM's are responsible for dealing with problems. /as Is to be kept PG rated - no cursing!

*USE /SEND for someone abusing /as - DO NOT USE /as! This escalates the problem. ALWAYS /send the person.

*AS A GM it's your responsibilty to keep an eye on your guildies when you are on - you cannot do this if your /as is turned off. Please do not turn off /as - if you must, assign an officer to watch it for you.

*IT IS EXPECTED that raid/bg/rvr announcements should be made on /as. If you see a swarm of albs and think a relic raid is upon us, make an announcement INCLUDING the person who has the RvR bg so anyone who wants to go out and defend the realm can. If there's an ML raid or arti raid going on announce it with the person's name who is leading and has the bg or cg for it. If someone says /bg join <name here> for arti raid, I don't want to hear anyone saying OH what artis are you doing - if you want to know that, join the bg and find out!

*Newbie questions are expected - small game chat, discussions of char spec/config just make sure these discussions don't go more than 5 mins - if you want to discuss longer, make the cg.

*Reminder from old rules - Don't ask for help or WTB/WTS more than once every 30 mins.

*AS A GM it is also expected that you support and back-up other GM's in the /as.

*Keep the smart-aleck comments off /as. If someone asks when 5L2 is and you don't know, don't say anything - if you want to be helpful look it up and state it. People shouldn't get "after 5L1" as a reply. Would you find that helpful if you were the person asking the question? I think not!

*If there's a problem and you /send someone who is abusing /as and they don't stop - look for an officer or GM from their guild. If none are on make note and contact the GM later - also available to post a complaint to the GM on the LoL board.

*Some guilds have sites up with a message board players must read BEFORE joining the guild. They have to agree to the guidelines/rules BEFORE! This is very beneficial as the two guilds who stated they do this I don't recognize as having many complaints about guildies.

*ALSO ALL GM'S NEED ACCESS TO THIS FORUM! They should be checking it at minimum 2x a week! If not all of your GM's have access PM Morety and he'll get it for you. If you get no response from Morety PM Rooster.

That's about all I have summed up, feel free to add anything if you were at the meeting and I missed a point!

Thanks all for taking the time to read this!

[Andolinni]

imo people should look before asking asend. a lot of times someone will ask when is r5L2... you have these people going to: http://www.camelotherald.com/section.php?id=23 and looking it up for those people. By rank5 if ya don't know where to look for realm ability information, ... umm well umm, i dunno what to say.

OHHHH another good one, if 1 person asks for rvr bg, it's simple to just type "/bg invite <name>" instead of "/as moggart-isuelt has rvr bg". Cuts down on spamming and typing.

Ohhh and another one is when it's like... lvl 45 lfg!! and i go hmmm... /who lvl 43 47 and i'm like wow, 30 players within 2 lvl's of this lvl 45 guy, i'm sure one of those 30 guys would have a spot available for that lfg guy if he just asked, i know over 2/3's of them can't read the asend anyways so sending those people would also be a brilliant idea. I love it best when people try and explain this to the person asking lfg and they get pissed off. those are the good days.

[crendalerst]

yeah.. laziness shouldn't really be an excuse to type on /as.. if you wanna be lazy ask in /gu or something, but not /as.

[Snoogens]

Sounds...Fun.../sigh
But you forgot the part where you tell us all to have Blonde hair, and Blue eyes. Not sure where CD stands in this decision. But I for one will never censor any one of my guildies from who they are, short of a personal attack or excessive use of foul language. It was such a "tragedy" to see 3 guilds I never ran with, I never talked to, or received any help from, leave our alliance. But hey, only took me like a split second to get over it. Through all your worries , of a lack of alliance rp's?... I dont think any one thought of the consequence the remaining guilds, that actually contribute to our "alliance" would inturn decree from more censorship. All of my guild will be asked to read this post, and a Guild vote will determine our fate with RS Alliance...

[crendalerst]

lol, gotta love carpe diem in all it's self righteousness.

[Korpz]

I thought everyone in this alliance was allowed to post their opinions freely, but if they're gonna be attacked from a person that isnt even in our alliance anymore, i suggest we keep this forum for alliance only members, not people that ditch the alliance and wish to add in little childish attacks on people attempting to voice their opinion.

-K

[Faier]

Snoogens said....Sounds...Fun.../sigh
But you forgot the part where you tell us all to have Blonde hair, and Blue eyes

This reminded me of the old days....Way back when i was in Dark Lotus and i first heard the term AS Nazi's, truth be told i didnt really understand what was meant by it....my little druid Lemnar was content just to exist and all was well...

As i leveled my toon up to the almighty thid level i became intrested in RvR, having seen others ask for rvr groups in /as i proceeded to do so...and quickly got 4 tells from people in the /as that it wasnt a place to be asking for BG groups...Lemnar got depressed...shortly thereafter a friend asked me to go to Bors to play mids with him and Lemnar, after the above incident did cease to exist.

I played on my mids for awhile, learned much about the game and the way a successful /as was ran. Nightly Raids lead by various people, constant RvR led by more people, and loh and behold gentle natured ribbing in the /as and Rokal (my FOTM BD) was happy to be alive....

But the call of Hibernia was strong in my veins and after spending some time as an alb i came back. I joined Dragon's Bane with my wife...and quickly found out that not much had changed with the /as...questions were asked and rude answers were replied. When DB made its pilgramage to WoW i joined a guild with some of my alb friends and was /as free...but i missed my friend's in the /as and came to join Brute Squad.



Yeah i know what a pointless long story....First and foremost this is a GAME, and a game is something to be enjoyed by all who play it regardless of sex/race/religion/intelligence or lack thereof.

Second having been in many guilds on many servers and having GM'd a few to boot i can appreciate the responsiblity that comes along with these things. and with that being said i have found that a group of people who cant get along doesnt operate efficently when it's time to do so. Unfortunately the best way to do so is through communication.

Third good raid leaders are hard to come by. When one exists he/she should be supported fully by thier /gu and thier /as. this also falls under communication. I have seen a few pople in this /as risk thier sanity to lead various things and very often there is no show of appreciation in the /as....praise in public berate in private....

To be honest Buffmoma what you posted was kinda vague.... Im the worlds worst at pointless chat in the /as, but its in an attempt to see who I can find to group with or who i want to help or be helped by....

IMO and mine only the points of the above list need to be clarified, and as this is a mostly PvE type /as at this point in its evolution why would we want to turn it back towards an RvR only type chat??

I could understand that back when CM led the DB zerg, or when shorty and the UE crew were part of it, heck even DL fielded an 8 man crew most nights...but most nights when i do /gc who alliance at least 2/3's of the people listed are in PvE zones....why cater to the minority, when the majority are into thier PvE



my pathetic opinions do not represent those of brute squad or any of its members ...if the need exists flame only me...im a Big Boy :)

[Elvtin]

I think what It might be is that people would rather see a more RvR oriented alliance then a PvE one really.
Having an alliance that is both PvE and RvR oriented though would be good stuff. But the rules for that might be more "complicated" perhaps. I'm happy with the rules that came out of the meeting on wednesday night(which I missed, sowwy!). The only real problem that I've ever noticed is that when people ask questions they get 5 responces of nothing and never an answer is all.... OH back to class.. more to follow later. :)

[Sayj]

I think we should all try things out for a few weeks then meet about it to see what's working, what's not, and what we really want changed. Give it a chance.

[Andolinni]

Good raid leaders are hard to come by. When one exists he/she should be supported fully by thier /gu and thier /as. this also falls under communication. I have seen a few pople in this /as risk thier sanity to lead various things and very often there is no show of appreciation in the /as....praise in public berate in private....

...as this is a mostly PvE type /as at this point in its evolution why would we want to turn it back towards an RvR only type chat??

Most nights when i do /gc who alliance at least 2/3's of the people listed are in PvE zones....why cater to the minority, when the majority are into thier PvE
:)

Most rvr persons are established, especially if they've been rvr'ing for a while, and sometimes join a guild, some guilds are specificly for rvr. Even if not; there are two kinds of rvr's those that can get a group through specific people they know, or people that try to get into a pickup group.

Personally i can't see how there hasn't been an rvr asend before, i expected it before toa, but toa changed the direction of the game. I think it's a good thing. Being out of the main alliance wont change attendance for ml's or raids if their schedualed. LoL board the best place for hib/pellinor to schedual raids. I know i have several alts still in the asend and i log in to see if there are any ml's schedualed on the /as motd

Besides, overall it allows new leaders (pve/rvr oriented) to arise and have full support of alliance. I don't speak for the guilds that left, but i believe most of them are not interested in leading ml's (with exception of averial, but he posts on LoL boards).

So personally i don't see a need for panic, everyones still here and such... in overall picture not much has changed. Everything will be just fine, just keep doing ml raids and get yer templates done too. In the altered words of a famous ww2 naval commander: "kill some albs, kill some more albs... and keep on killing albs."

[tady]

Overly simple solution to general problem.. We need another Chat channel... instead of trying to split the one /as chat into dual usage..

Would be nice for ALL of Hib to have ONE general RVR channel.. /AS is for multi-purpose, but /Hib RVR would be for ALL Hibs on line at that time.
\RVR call to arms would be a lot faster.. could jump the a Bg after getting there , but one PURE channel for rvr would unite all of HIbernia , all of the /as , under one flag.

Tady

[Sayj]

Tady, please take care of this for us. ;)

[Swifty_Johnson]

There wasn't much changed with the AS rules, one important change that we talked about was /as abusers being contacted through tells, not over /as. This will cut down a ton on pointless spam.

Swifty

[Galeen_MacLeod]

*Some guilds have sites up with a message board players must read BEFORE joining the guild. They have to agree to the guidelines/rules BEFORE! This is very beneficial as the two guilds who stated they do this I don't recognize as having many complaints about guildies.



Wow.. Ya know; we've had this policy in CD for a long, long time.. ever since Draethor was going bonkers trying to find the crossrealm spy in Asend (which turned out to be in HG /cry) and we've had people decide to not join because they wouldn't agree to the rules and we've had to boot a couple people who wouldn't follow the rules they'd agreed to.
As the guild has gotten smaller, I've always wondered if the policy was a good idea, especially when I'd look back on the time when CD was the largest guild in the realm after Fianna.
But this recognition vindicates the policy, I guess.
Certainly it's much better to be referred to as doing something right, than to see complaint threads about one's guildies. Thank you

[Cinamon Styxx]

Well, again, this was not a meeting instituting " more censorship " as Snoogens complains, but reaffirming and reinstating the original /AS chat rules from 2 years ago. I recommend we not take this to heart, as if it were a personal attack, since nothing could be further from the truth. This reminder of the appropriate ways to behave in a large group is strongly connected to what Clan Destiny teaches its noobies as " Group Discipline " , one of the things that recent raids and Relic Raids and ML raids have been lacking.
In my experience, many youthful persons react to the teachings of their Elders, especially in the area of Group Dynamics, with a defensive attitude, a chip-on-the-shoulder style of learning... :rolly:
I know you all realize that if the /AS chat were always reasonable, < or nearly always > we wouldnt have to spend our valuable game time trying to convince members to comply with guidelines they already are aware of.

< getting more irritated >

HELLO...what is the POINT of this GAME??? To play the GAME or to agitate all the others until we get all the attention and get to use our limited vocabularies until no one is LEFT to group with, and to kill enemies with...

< getting REALLY irritated now > :bang: :bang: :bang:

Cant figure it out...people are sooo ....selfish, using up the personal time of the /AS leadership as if it were theirs...and YES we have to respond, or we are not doing our jobs here...


Cinamon Styxx

[Elvtin]

I'm in a group dynamics class this quarter....

That's My Plan!

[Andolinni]

there is no pure rvr channel, /bg is the best rvr channel i've found... and i spamm there too, so it's not pure rvr chat anyways.

[Yoggoth]

Mythic is going to be looking at guild improvements next, so make sure you email them with ideas on new chat channels that are needed ( like a /pu public)

[Coinchinalny]

Fun to read the posts.

Snoogens post sounds more like he aint got a clue imo. sad.

But then again for me Carpe Diem died when Naziir and Soc left the game. Was acctually a time long ago when CD was just formed i wanted to join it with my BM. But i formed a own guild instead with some friends working closely with CD, guild called Anguish. I looked high upon CD because of the people.

Snoogen just showed me that the old CD really is dead, with Korpz later to confirm it.

G'luck with whatever, I wont miss the "What did you eat for dinner discussions"
Thats my opinion, not my guild.

Coinchinshalny - D.O.G - Old Doover

[Elvtin]

Now Now... We friendly here. Everybody has an opinion but try not to rag on one another for posting ideas/opinions.

[Snoogens]

Fun to read the posts.

Snoogens post sounds more like he aint got a clue imo. sad.

But then again for me Carpe Diem died when Naziir and Soc left the game. Was acctually a time long ago when CD was just formed i wanted to join it with my BM. But i formed a own guild instead with some friends working closely with CD, guild called Anguish. I looked high upon CD because of the people.

Snoogen just showed me that the old CD really is dead, with Korpz later to confirm it.

G'luck with whatever, I wont miss the "What did you eat for dinner discussions"
Thats my opinion, not my guild.

Coinchinshalny - D.O.G - Old Doover



HAHAHA I have no clue? WTF does anything you said even have to do with whats going on here? I DONT agree with any kind of censorship. BUT, NOT being in our alliance and in a guild I could really care less about , I will glady say to you and anyone else NOT in our alliance to stfu and mind your own busines. IMO Coinchinshalny - D.O.G - Old Doover , let OUR alliance work together to solve these differences and you just turn that back of yours around and face your own guild/alliance's problems KTHXBYE...

[Arkkahos]

/em waves at everyone
/em hands everyone a cookie
/em puts on some relaxing music

Ok, little message from one of the original fonders (ugh is that the right translation) of Carpe Diem *drums rolling*. From day one, we've had the habit of speaking our mind, guild hasn't changed the least bit on that ;) I do not believe we need to start arguing, and attack each other, let's keep that for those evil zerging albs :) We have voiced our opinion, but as long as we remain in the alliance we shall live by its rules, as shown in the private asend forum.
Anyway, this thread signs the official unretirement (ugh translation problem again hehe) of the grumpy and bad tempered european co-leader of CD :D (though i think crazy furb and evil elf have been doing an awesome job, but they don't have my "handing cookies" leet skillz :D)

Long live Hibernia !

/em hands everyone a cookie
/em waves.

[binder_pellinor]

Looks like with ML's, arti's and stuff out of the way, the Gankers don't have any more need for the pvers.

What's up all.:)

[Arkkahos]

Binder !!!!!!!! /hugs

[Coinchinalny]

I will glady say to you and anyone else NOT in our alliance to stfu and mind your own busines. -Snoogen

That doesnt really solve Hibs problem does it? Its not alliances vs alliances.
Shouldnt we help each other anyway? I know we use to help lots of people that actually ask us for help. We never turn our cheek on fellow hibs.
What you said in shorter words is that you turn your cheek on anyone outside your alliance.

Coinchin

[Tammarion]

Shrug. Don't look at me... I'm still running raids...

[crendalerst]

"Looks like with ML's, arti's and stuff out of the way, the Gankers don't have any more need for the pvers."

Err ya, none of us have ever lead any ML raids or anything either right? :P..

"What you said in shorter words is that you turn your cheek on anyone outside your alliance."

It does sound that way... And hear I thought it was us being the elitists!

[Arkkahos]

For all i know CD never refused to help anyone unless well erm it was impossible to. Hell i even recall grouping with you Crend, and i recall us following you leading relic raids and stuff :)
We got our tempers, we say things as we feel, and we can be grumpy and stuff. But one thing that has, does and will always make me proud, is that we never turn our back at a fellow hib, that we stick together, and care for our realm. Do we shut up if things don't fit us? Hell no. But i believe you can count on this guild, no matter your alliance, if you need us, we're around. Always was, always will be. But do fellow guildies come first? Hell yeah. Don't your own guildies come first too? Won't you stand up for them if something goes wrong?
We're straight forward, hypocrisy isn't for us. I believe that it's something that remained since CD's creation :)
You can hate us, we can hate you, but we'll be around for the glory of Hibernia (this is a game right?).

Just my two cents. If any CD disagrees with me, they'll speak up, u can bet on that ;)

[Faier]

What you said in shorter words is that you turn your cheek on anyone outside your alliance.

Coinchin

im sorry i dont see that, what i see is he is saying that the form the /as currently is in needs to deal with its own problems without outsiders, even if you did just leave, coming and joining into these conversations, basically you have already made the choice to leave this /as why try to come and be part of it's internal discussions???

[tady]

Looks like with ML's, arti's and stuff out of the way, the Gankers don't have any more need for the pvers.

What's up all.:)
OOOOooooooo... Was that a Binder < Bane of all Albs and Mids > sighting ???

ZERG !!! ZERG !!!! WE WANNA ZERG !!!!!!!

I Want to see more Binder bashing on the Vn boards because of the Binder zerg !! :D


TAdy

[Andolinni]

Hey check it out, i was on RS alliance last night... I'm doing my ML's and i look up to see chat about how "crazy asian girls" come here to pop out babbies and make families.. and another quote close to "croatian girls are ok so long as you give them vodka". The racist comments had been a continuation of a longtime disturbing conversation.

So i was like hey, i don't wanna hear that crap, wtf is the need for it. this isn't an aol chat and lil kids read this. I was sent by someone who identified themselves as an /as moderator. And they're like, hey these guys didn't do anything wrong. And i'm like wtf you can be racist and say gross crap on as now??? Well the crap talk on asend continued soooooooooo.... tada!!! i say "kill the jews". WOW LOOK MA! I GOT EVERYONES ATTENTION!

Yea then all the lil bitc... err racist fuc... err lil racist people can all jump up and cry. ok, now that i have everyones attention i reitterate that no racism of any kind is acceptable to myself. FYI, i said kill the jews to get your attention. Anyways, i just wanted to let you racist schmuks know that the crap that you say on asend is good reason why some people don't want to be a part of that. Never should those kinds of comments be on an alliance.

I wanna know what guild leader, as moderator or W.E that says it's ok to say the quotes that were being said. Why did i get snowballed for voiceing that racist comments were invalid/crap.

Also i notice a lot of harsh words for the people that have left RS alliance because of their disagreements. If thats what you wanna do/say thats your choice... but remember a lot of those people have lead raids, and/or still do.

[Andolinni]

Sounds...Fun.../sigh
But you forgot the part where you tell us all to have Blonde hair, and Blue eyes. Not sure where CD stands in this decision. But I for one will never censor any one of my guildies from who they are, short of a personal attack or excessive use of foul language. It was such a "tragedy" to see 3 guilds I never ran with, I never talked to, or received any help from, leave our alliance. But hey, only took me like a split second to get over it. Through all your worries , of a lack of alliance rp's?... I dont think any one thought of the consequence the remaining guilds, that actually contribute to our "alliance" would inturn decree from more censorship. All of my guild will be asked to read this post, and a Guild vote will determine our fate with RS Alliance...


This is a great example. No one ever said anything about you can't talk on asend, we just mentioned some ways to get specific info on the topic you're looking for or a direct responce for what you're looking for. Again, we see a lot of when is r5L2? and answers are after 5l1! or before 5L3!!! OMG HALARIOUS, no just downright stupid. Thats why i say look on the freggin board, it takes 5 seconds, and you'll prolly have an answer before someone else on the asend can go look it up for you.

Another one, BTW if you havn't noticed... RS alliance doesn't include all players on hib/pellinor cluster.... SOOOOO if you want a grp, and you say LFG lvl45.. chances are more than 2/3's of the people that are within your level aren't even reading that chat. So whats ganna happen, the lvl 45 lfg person sits there spamming lfg lvl 45 for 30minutes, and then they're pissed off that no one wants to help them. Where in fact it's that no one has seen the lvl 45 lfg and need a lvl 45.

These aren't censorship items. these are how people communicate in game, it's a better way of communication than just blurting out on asend. People have been sending tells as a way of cutting down on spamm since begining of game, 3 years later why people don't understand this concept is still mindboggling to myself. Why can't you people just take the comments with a grain of salt. Just take them to mind, not to heart.

[Arkkahos]

Ando... we saved ya a spot for a while... but u moved on to ToA Kay... /slap

[Snoogens]

I believe, Wanting to be some one else is a waste of the person you are. But I wish I was like you Crend, Elitist Extraordinaire.

[Korpz]

In response to coin, i've asked for dog's help on taking keeps a lot, because of enemy defenders, because we didnt have the #s to deal with enemies, and was denied time and time again help from dog, because they dont "siege".... <shrug> everyone does what they want, but dont stand and say you've helped hibs time and time again when i've asked for help many times and have yet to see a response... dog is a great rvr guild, kills many enemies and does best they can to secure frontier, even tho i've never received help on a keep from them that i can remember...i have a few friends in dog so i'm not speaking down towards them, i'm just acting in response to one of your guildies...i do like to run with the friends i have in dog if i get the chance
also i do agree that all hib can help make suggestions to help alliances stay together, but i dont agree with people outside of our alliance bashing people inside this alliance, especially of carpe diem.. i'd like to see this alliance successful and expand, but it'll be very hard to help with that if people that left the alliance are bashing my guild and it's members...
just my 2 cents again...
-K

[crendalerst]

"i'd like to see this alliance successful and expand, but it'll be very hard to help with that if people that left the alliance are bashing my guild and it's members..."

Seeing you are new to the alliance leader's forum korpz i suggest you read some old threads in there, then maybe you'll understand the bitterness of some people toward carpe diem. Your guild has never been one to stand up for what's best for the alliance, so taking on that attitude now is just plain amusing, especially seeing your own co-gm suggested in this very thread that your guild was considering leaving the alliance, because of rule enforcement.

"But I wish I was like you Crend, Elitist Extraordinaire."

Rofl, yeah I run relic raids and relic defense all to expand my epeen, same with the ML raids I've lead too even though the toon I've run them with was already ML10.

[Snoogens]

seeing your own co-gm suggested in this very thread that your guild was considering leaving the alliance



There was no suggestions, what i said is my guild would all decide for themselves.


I run relic raids and relic defense all to expand my epeen


We know Crend, we Know.

[Calain]

I would suggest to chill down a bit, esp. the new leadership if CD.
Without having any clue on how /as is these days during primetime i know one thing.

The guilds that left did what they thought would be the best for them , and DD as well as Urban Empire posted a while back that there were problems which might lead into them leaving.

It seems to me that the problems are still here and that is a good reason to leave the alliance.

All the people that posted blamming the guilds that left have to remember that we are the ones that couldnt solve the problems.

Always remember , if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

Beside that,...

When reading this thread, without considering any rescent ingame events,
i have to say that esp. Snoogens posts are a bit over the top.

The thing is as Crend said and as Ark said CD has its own history in regards to /as problems , i thought those things were made clear long ago and CD had found its way to handle the rules we set up here.

Now after a meeting that basicaly just reconfirmed the rules of the past, CD thinks about leaving because of the rules???

Hello???? Everything ok here?
This is just a new iteration of the stuff that happend a while back or what?
Make up your minds and stay to it , else its no wonder when ppl react with sarcasm to your posts on this matter.


GD

Calain
MT

[Sayj]

Probably the problem lies not in the rules but the fact that we actually WANT to enforce them. I can't tell you how many times I've been told "no one cares anyhow." Obviously, people care or we wouldn't have had the meeting and promised to support each other as we enforce the same rules.

[Cinamon Styxx]

Ditto to Sayj's comment.

Cina :eh:

[Anomolee]

Cina!

/hug

[Elvtin]

Holy Crap.... You People... /shakes head
Crazyness...
If I buy you all cookies and milk, will you all play nice?

[Grunty]

Holy Crap.... You People... /shakes head
Crazyness...
If I buy you all cookies and milk, will you all play nice?


Crend never groups me and ignores my tells. I think he doesnt like my vamp.

[Arkkahos]

Did i hear the word cookies? :rolly:

[crendalerst]

"Crend never groups me and ignores my tells. I think he doesnt like my vamp."

rofl, you always ask when we're already full, or about to log ><... It always seems that when I want to start a group either there's nobody at all that can join or there's like 20 people that want to join ><..

[Leiriel]

/wave arrk and binder miss you guys

[Snoogens]

Calain said:

I would suggest to chill down a bit, esp. the new leadership if CD.
Snoogens posts are a bit over the top.


Cant handle 1 person's opinion? From a GM who was at the alliance GM meeting? Am I not allowed to say what I think and feel? And when im attacked for this, you really expect no sarcasm from someone who agrees with the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. I have not spoken for my guild here. I speak for myself. And whats so great about CD IMO is, they will too. Any changes in the past made to whatever alliance CD was in at the time, always led to a guild vote. Everyone in CD speaks their mind. Everyone in CD has a say. You people who cant understand this, just dont bother trying.

To the people who have agreed with me here, thx. To the people who gave relevant disagreements to my opinions of the alliance GM meeting, thx as well. I have taken in consideration everything that was said. And the next meeting that takes place I hope we can solve some more of our differences together. To the rest of you, you know who you are... I have said everything I need to say to you. /em hands you a cookie... now go play nice

[Snoogens]

P.S. /em Hands Arkka a special Troll shaped cookie. Glad your back =)

[Andolinni]

i still think it's great. now the moronic fuckers on asend are like OMG DOOD BOOOT micheal... again, wtf about the racist fuqers that were talking about asian girls only coming to america to pop out babbies? or how croatian girls are ok as long as they get inserted vodka??? AGAIN SERIOUSLY.... does no one else have a problem with it????

I've made this issue in the past and it's the ONLY reason i said kill the jews. I have jewish in me and other half german. A very high percentage of both sides of my family were killed by the facist regime of old nazi germany. fuq you fuckers that wanna talk shit, A. and B, if you tolerate the crap these fuqers are posting about asians and croatians... go ahead, be pissed at me, you aren't worth the ground i sh*t upon. now go screw your heads in.

boot me if you want.... but the fact is, you have racist fuqers in your asend... and booting me won't help deter that fact, as i am not one of those people. in fact, hell, i promise you, if you boot me, i will be back in asend within 48 hours. so go ahead and find the easy answer, boot the freggin messager instead of dealing with the real issue at hand. find the easy way out, /clap and you'll find me back in asend again. i've always been in asend for a long time. and ever so often i take offense to something someone has said.... and by the times end, i am assured that they regret having ever said it. goal accomplished, score, end. if ya dont' believe me, just ask some of my former enemies.

Only reason i am full of wrath atm is because you people are oblivious to the situation at hand. you have people on here talking racist remarks and no one cares. I admit, saying kill the jews was wrong, and i'm sorry... but again, i only said it to draw attention to the previous comments from others.

[crendalerst]

" And when im attacked for this, you really expect no sarcasm from someone who agrees with the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. "

You act as if the American constitution applies to everyone in the game... I hate to inform you of this, but not everyone in the game or in the alliance is american.

[salidor]

Hiya guys :P

One reason why are guild went from Fotc to MK was beacuse of some of the people in the guild making problems in the /as... this wasnt the Main reason but one of them that the officers in the guild talked about...

we ended up desiding to make sure every one wishing to join are guild would read both /as Rules and are own rules. if they could agree on the rules then they are welcome to join are guild but they would not have /as chat for 2 weeks, lol even /as hear for 1 week... just so that the officers can get to know them...

But we lost alot of people because we warned them not to Cuss in /as or /gu. and are guild Will drop people that dont listen... and a few people just leave :P Then its funny as hell to see that person that we droped/quit from the guild in the Same /as just in a different guild. farting around in the /as, giving there new guild crap :P

I dont mind rules, it helps keep things in order. hibs need to learn to work together, and help teach each others how to play. I still Noob around lol, but when Moby took me in and gave me some ideas on how to RvR with my Hero it was nice :+). was the only FotC member at that time with DOG. and it was nice to learn how to play my hero better. Just wish i got into more of those nice groups again :+)
sucks Soloing :P

Are guild has some Hard rules. but if the guild enforces those rules makeing sure every one fallows them :P including my self :/ the guild learns to work together. helps every one to consider each person erm values... but even tho how many rules are guild has are guild is still growing ( finaly ) ;p just the past month we have added 15 new members to the guild :+) are guild dont have the Great Leaders, or the Best RvRers, but we enjoy the friend ship we have. and i hope the /as can get that way too.

[Snoogens]

I hate to inform you of this, but not everyone in the game or in the alliance is american.

I did not know that. Thx for pointing that out to me...
Guess a cookie was not enough...
/em hands Crend a hockey stick, now go play nice<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Arkkahos]

/em waves to Leiriel :) Hope to see you in frontiers soon =)

/em hands everyone some cookies but keeps to herself the uber troll shaped cookie :D

Let's all unite under the cookies banner! 8)

[Grunty]

" And when im attacked for this, you really expect no sarcasm from someone who agrees with the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. "

You act as if the American constitution applies to everyone in the game... I hate to inform you of this, but not everyone in the game or in the alliance is american.


Unfortunately they also let Canadians play this game!

[binder_pellinor]

It's just funny how people left due to whatever reason and joined an alliance with angels like the CKD/lakeshow crew. It's kinda hypocritical to me.

/hug Arkk
/hug Leiriel

[tady]

Only reason i am full of wrath atm is because you people are oblivious to the situation at hand. you have people on here talking racist remarks and no one cares. I admit, saying kill the jews was wrong, and i'm sorry... but again, i only said it to draw attention to the previous comments from others.

Ando,
Perspective is a 2 edged sword.
When we perceive something , we automatically assume that everyone sees it the same way that we do. That is human nature. Because of our similar but different enviornmental and social upbringinings , each of our perspectives will vary somewhat .

The comments referring Asian / Russian girls , from one perspective ,may appear as the typical "horny-lonesome" male conversation on DAOC. This thread easily could have contained similar references to red heads, , Southern women or Eskimos that needed to be warmed up. ANY and all female types could be inserted here. Guy talk...

It was Stoner ( i think) that originated the conversation saying he wasnt getting much lately ..:D That led into the natural theme of Russian Mail order brides. ( i got 6 russian invites in the mail today ) and..( Hope you are doing better now Stone .. ;))

Possibly some may see chat this as racist??? Possibly , obviously you did.
Obviously , most others in chat did not.

I wish you could have effectively conveyed your perspective so that it had not created "Drama" .

Tady

[crendalerst]

"It's just funny how people left due to whatever reason and joined an alliance with angels like the CKD/lakeshow crew. It's kinda hypocritical to me. "

What's even funnier is that we've had no problems at all in our alliance with any of the guilds so far, but getting groups sure has been a lot easier.

Another funny thing is that the 4 primary guilds in our alliance have more combined rps on the week than the other 21 hib guilds in the top 25 put together. We wanted rvr, and that's what we have gotten.

[Arkkahos]

Well good for you Crend, glad you found what you wanted in your new alliance :) But why are you still giving your opinions bout this one? o.O Not that i believe you should be quiet, i believe in free speech :) But it's a two sided thing ;) If you can say what u think outside alliance, those still in it can do same too, right? :D

[crendalerst]

yep they sure can, the reason I'm still giving my opinions, is because I'm one of the 3 founders of this alliance, and although I'm not in it anymore, I still care what happens to it. That and I find it very amusing that it's the same guild as always kicking up a fuss, and still nobody will do anything about it.

Although you're not much of one to talk either, seeing as though you barely even play anymore :)

[Leiriel]

wow....all the bad feelings flowing here. i'm not a member of the alliance but respect alot of the people who are (or have been). have even been guilded with the carpe diem folks when the majority of the jesters left for either other servers or other games. what i see lacking is respect for other peoples opnions, agree to disagree, but respect their opinions. as for the reacist comments, they have no place in civilized society, either real or pixeled.


to arrk....am out in rvr just have to find me :) saw you the other day but you logged before i could say anything /hug

[Andolinni]

yea, crend is right, the alliance i'm in is freggin bliss. no retard chat, and hell i even OMFG i grped with crendalerst the other day, freggin amazing.

and btw tady, i did on more than 1 line display my disagreement. are you seriously telling me that saying asian girls only come here to pop out babbies isn't racist? try saying that to your boss at work. funny thing is, a guy just got fired at my work this weekend for saying blacks don't tip him well, and didn't want to take black tables. even tho most people in restaraunt business either understand this complaint or agree with it... he still was fired for his racist remarks.

I seriously wanna know, do you folks really mean to say that saying that asians only come to america to pop out babbies and croatian girls are ok only after inserted with vodka isn't racist? i mean c'mon tady, you realy mean to tell me that isn't racist? it's fuckin racist, and i took offense with it, and i made my point. maybe now people will know that it is offensive to hear racist remarks and they'll think twice before posting such crap.



Thats the end of this post for me. if you people seriously think saying those things aren't racist you all need yer heads examined. I hear a lot about people saying bla bla bla you aren't even in the alliance why do you have an opinion. i got a better question, i'm not even in your alliance why do you care that i have an opinion? why not deal with your alliance folks that are sputtering racist remarks on asend

[Aglon]

Sigh...

I had resisted posting in this thread until today. I guess I must be having a weak moment.

I hear lots of complaints about inappropriate speech on /as. I am someone who never turns /as off, BTW, and I always try to read it - although some times I'm not as diligent as I should be given the nature of what I am doing.

Whenever i see something inappropriate, I do two things:

1 - I turn on my chat log immediately
2 - I ask the offender to stop

I have to say that 95% of the time (at least) the response is "oops, sorry." And the problem ends there. That other 5% of the time, I have nice evidence to send to the offender's guild master. so far, I have NEVER had a case where the GM has failed to respond. I will say some times I think the GM could have gone farther in disciplinary action, some times I wish more would be done. But I always get agreement that the behavior is inappropriate and at least some corrective action.

I think the reason for this is I send logs, not just vague complaints. Logs are easier to deal with and much harder to deny. There's no "I never said that..." and everything is just much more objective. and if a GM was unwilling to actually fix the problem, we have the option to post the logs, publically. Public scorn is more of a powerful tool than people might think - stocks in the center of the villiage for thieves were just the right sort of thing needed to discourage thievery.

The best we can ALL do to fight BS on our /as channel is to make is publically embarassing. When someone is out of control, hit the darn "L" key and ask them to stop. If they don't step, send the log to the appropriate GM. If it is not fixed to your satisfaction, post the log here. I've complained about behavior on /as about 50 times, and it has never gone beyond the second step for me.

BTW - anyone suggesting asians come to america just to have babies or that all russian women are whores, or anything like that - needs to be called on their speech. I don't care what motivated it or how drunk they are - you can't talk like that on our /as. Logs would help here too.

[Arkkahos]

"I hate to inform you of this, but not everyone in the game or in the alliance is american. "

"Although you're not much of one to talk either, seeing as though you barely even play anymore "

I'm replying again cause i'm actually back in game, for good, but guess what? I'm french! I have way different schedules and stuff :) Does that make me less entitled to my opinions? When i'm in game, realm can count on me, but RL does come first. So Hibernia can count on me, when i find time :) Don't we all do same? Play game when we have time? o.O

But if someone wants to pay me to play, i'm up for it :)

/cookies to all
and /hug Leiriel, hope our stealthers get to annihilate some albs together again 8)

[Coinchinalny]

I'm replying again cause i'm actually back in game, for good, but guess what? I'm french! I have way different schedules and stuff :) Does that make me less entitled to my opinions?

You shouldnt ask Crend that imo, It was Snoogen that brought up "The Con".
and tbh i dont care about american laws. I dont like them and i dont follow them.
But then again most EU people dont like "The Con" in US.

Im just babbling crap at moment:/ All i wanted to say is that crend didnt say anything bad about nonamericans in his post, so your questions Arkk sounds more like you want to stir things up.

[crendalerst]

she took the quotes nicely out of context though didn't she? :P

[Arkkahos]

Nope just stating i have different schedules due to my time zone. But yeah, found funny to quote that part of Crend's message :D
Irony anyone?
There was nothing more to it, i could have mentionned living in Australia or anything, just happens that i'm french and night for most of you is day for me ;)
Not being entitled to my opinions was bout playing on different schedules, NOT about being french. But hey... :eh:

[Snoogens]

she took the quotes nicely out of context though didn't she?

ya I think your a great teacher... /hug crend

[Snoogens]

It was Snoogen that brought up "The Con".
True enough, but why take my opinions, that I choose to live by and turn it into anything other then me saying how I choose to live MY life. Im merely stating what kinda person I am, and no one else...
so your questions Arkk sounds more like you want to stir things up
These non-stop attacks to my guildies dont stir things up at all, do they. You guyz wanna keep taking quotes outa context, abusing your rights to this forum and OUR alliance, and bash my guild and try to turn it on us lol...Go Ahead, stir it up. Make ass's outa yourselves. IMO its pretty hilarious. keep up the good work

[Grumpy]

It's hilarious... Those 'old' things you're saying korpz to go read on the GM forum are how old?!

They're mostly about me and cinderpunk. Cinderpunk was kicked twice, sold his account and the new owner cancelled the account. So why the hell are you guys bashing CD on that matter? We fixed it to make you guys happy, lost a good guildie with it too. But no that's not enough.

And me. I moved to mid/perc for 90% of my time now till i pull off there what i did here (no not piss off 50% of the realm, but get a full page of 50s). So i dunno why you're still holding a grudge about that to the guild when i haven't been pissing off alliance for 3-4 months.

Not to mention what i did wasn't as bad as all the racist crap/utter spam/nonsense that some ppl blurt out in /as most of the time.

Yet it's still CD that's the dirt in as, only cause of the way people get treated in the guild. Kinda odd in my eyes, how CD has to suffer the least ammount of peeps hopping over to other guilds ( only ones i can remember are cinder, and a few that jumped over to a GG to afterwards quit hib/pell or peeps who quit guild and RETURNED less then a week after, SO we must be doing something right! )


And about most of the information questions on as... www.derida.de
That custom interface has a lot of nice info and the windows don't cluster up your screen much.

[crendalerst]

" You guyz wanna keep taking quotes outa context, abusing your rights to this forum and OUR alliance, and bash my guild and try to turn it on us lol..."

In case you didn't realize this is a public forum, open to anyone, and has always been that way, there's always been people from outside of the alliance posting here. I love how you invent rules that only apply when they're convenient to you.

[Snoogens]

Go Ahead, stir it up. Make ass's outa yourselves. IMO its pretty hilarious. keep up the good work



ya i quoted myself... you forgot too

[Elvtin]

Okie.. I think I'm confused...
What are you people talking about?
Cause It doesn't seem to be the new alliance stuff.. lol

[Coinchinalny]

Elvtin, I dont get it anymore either, Snoogen is trying to play around things a bit so it looks better for him. Im not gonna try it anymore since he aint worthy talking to.

[Snoogens]

Im not gonna try it anymore since he aint worthy talking to.
See we can agree on things here =) , /cookies to Coin! and enjoy daoc /wave buddy.

[Andolinni]

is this post straight out of grade school or what? don't you fuckers ever goto recess? give it a break and everyone just stfu. don't make me board troll

[Elvtin]

I think I should being this post back into reason..
I'd like to direct you to here.. and just stare..
It's the whole reason we are here..

Alliance Goodness (http://www.legionoflions.com/showthread.php?t=6822)

just that 1st post btw. ignore the rest.. hehe

[crendalerst]

"Quote:
Im not gonna try it anymore since he aint worthy talking to.


See we can agree on things here =) , /cookies to Coin! and enjoy daoc /wave buddy."

You agree that you aren't worthy talking to? rofl..

[Morety]

This alliance was founded due to lack of leadership in the former alliance.

We made it clear when we started it that GM's were to control their own people. They agreed to rules set out before they joined. If they don't abide by the rules, they should be kicked out of the alliance asap.

Sample:
Crend: If anyone from HG spams this alliance again they will be kicked out.
HG Member: Spam
Crend: HG has now been removed from this alliance.

Very simple, and might I add, effective.

Racist comments have no place in /as. Also, Andolinni, you should know two wrongs don't make a right, and should've sent a message to the offending members GM, failing that to Buffmomma along with screenshots so action could be taken. I see what you were doing, and it is not the proper way to go about making your point... imnsho.

If Carpe Diem breaks /as rules, kick them out. If they don't like the rules, then they should leave. If they haven't broken rules, then stfu about it. If the rules are not black and white use judgement. If you continually use poor judgement, you should get the boot.

[Grunty]

is this post straight out of grade school or what? don't you fuckers ever goto recess? give it a break and everyone just stfu. don't make me board troll


Cinderpunk: Doober! Can i get buffs?

me: Aaargh!

[Morety]

Haha Cinderpunk!

[Grumpy]

If Carpe Diem breaks /as rules, kick them out. If they don't like the rules, then they should leave. If they haven't broken rules, then stfu about it. If the rules are not black and white use judgement. If you continually use poor judgement, you should get the boot.


Make sure to do that to every guild and not only CD as often seems to be whined about. thank you!

[Morety]

That is correct.

[salidor]

when i do a raid ( only had 3 so far ) or when Im apart of something I want every one to fallow the rules. it goes smother and better when there listend to.
I've Kicked people out of my BG/GU for not fallowing the rules, and its not hard if that person wants to be a ass. People need warnings just to let them know there going on soft ground :P but if they dont listen or dont want to fine. they just wont get any where with me :+)

[Swifty_Johnson]

Also, Andolinni, you should know two wrongs don't make a right, and should've sent a message to the offending members GM, failing that to Buffmomma along with screenshots so action could be taken.

Exactly. We need to stop spamming /as when these things happen. Tells to users first, and if they don't stop move up the food chain.

Swifty

[Coplann]

in response to Aglon: ya and as Morety said take screenshots, logs can be changed.

and I dont think this Crendalerst vs. Carpe Diem vendetta is helping at all. I like Crend, I like Arkk. I dont know most if not all of the other CD members that posted here, but /shrug.

to me its sad to see DOG and DD leave the alliance, but its not the end of the world not for them, not for us/the alliance. we are still one realm. alliances come and go.

DAoC is still a game and I think everyone would enjoy it alot more if they sticked to MTs #1 rule: to have fun and to not spoil the fun of someone else.

[Andolinni]

kk i'ma beat it with a dead stick, but people still not getting facts straight. I did say several times that the racist comments on asend were there, my objections were to an extent ignored. i was IN FACT talking to an asend officer WHEN I SAID kill the jews. i AGAIN said this ONLY to make an issue with the issue i had at hand. The reason for this is the alliance officer said that what they were saying was not a violation of alliance rules. Now i'm pretty self rightous, and i tried to see this from his point of view. The picture i get of croatian girls only good after inserted with vodka isn't a pretty picture, whats another pretty picture that i consider racist... hmm... lets think of worst thing i can think of.. death... and a race that has been persecuted within past 100 years supposedly the most.. jews. BINGO! KILL THE JEWS!!!! we got a winner folks, lets test new theory with the asend. in lil small letters, cause i don't wanna be considered spamming; "kill the jews". Funny tho, i didn't hear from that alliance officer for that chat. You wouldn't believe it tho, same people that just a minute ago were chatting along with the poor sad, cant get no pussy for 20buck fucks, now they crying cause i said something racist! can you believe that! if they either cant get in on it, or capitalize on it, they figure it's to be censored or it's against imaginary rules they make up along the way.

yes, morety is completly right, and making two wrongs does not make a right. and to be honest, i'm too big of an egotistical bastard to back down from my stance that these other persons comments were racist. I had spoke to the alliance officer and he had no problem with the speech of that which i had offense. Therefor the representative of the alliance says that what imo are racist comments are acceptablt. I decided to test this judgement with my quote of "kill the jews". quite the simple quote really, truely was with lack of feeling and meant nothing.

great thing is, in all honesty, i enjoy every player, and every person. but if you tick me off it's no skin off my back to take offense. i already have a new alt in alliance btw, i see your chats, you might hear from me again. Imo since i never head decision that actually included the whole of GM's of alliance, there is not a problem with me being in the RS alliance. And since the only word of an alliance leader publicly have been two people that i see as at least understanding my position, i don't see this as a treason or somechit. funny how the guild leader of seyr atchium did not confer with any of the other guild leaders that i spoke to before removing me, thats ok too tho. i joined SA for reasons that which now do not apply. again, the moderator and tru leader is correct, two wrongs don't make a right, and i'm glad i live in america and we can all make mistakes and still live another day.




F.T.P

fuck your osama
RIPourleader

[Snoogens]

yes, morety is completly right, and making two wrongs does not make a right



Your both wrong... Its 3 lefts that make a right ;)