Comparison: US treatment vs al-Quada treatment

[PoxTheSmall]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/11/iraq.main/index.html

Nice...I especially liked the line "Where is the compassion, where is the anger for God's religion, and where is the protection for Muslims' pride in the crusaders' jails?". He's displaying a lot of compassion by beheading a civilian on video. I swear, Muslims are the most hypocritical people on the face of the planet.

The more I think about it, the more I'd like this war to go from ground forces to air bombardment.

I saw this father once sock his kid and say "Look what you made me do". That's a very Muslim way of thinking.

[Roscoes_C&W]

It's a religion of violence.

[PoxTheSmall]

Very true. The Koran (sp?) says that it is a good thing to give pain to the enemies of god, and that if at holy war (which oddly can be declared by a cleric or priest), you are rewarded by bringing pain and suffering to them. Also, in business you are supposedly rewarded by god for taking advantage of folks who are unwary.

[Grundy]

The beheading was another pointless act of violence.

I am sure if we tallied it up over the past 1000 years Christians have been responsible for more pointless death and violence than all other religions combined.

But it's ok since God wants them to win.

[]LoL[Harm]

Grundy, you and I both know that it was the Buddhist who started the Inquisition, Holy Wars and the persecution of all things not of Buddha! ;)

[Sparky]

I thought they weren't theoretically supposed to hurt anything, including trees? I'm no religious expert, so correct me if i'm wrong.

[PoxTheSmall]

According to China, the Dali Lama had his people in slavery and was a ruthless dictator. This is as per my buddy's girlfriend who's from mainland China, and that's what folks in China have grown up believing...that they went in and liberated Tibet from that evil monarch.

[Allison]

There are different forms of Islam. And many of the more radical teachings of some of these offshoots are wrongly attributed by the ignorant to the Koran. I'm no expert, mind you. But lumping all Muslims into the same category as radical fundamentalist terrorists isn't far from saying that the wacko who killed his family because "God told him to do it" is representative of Christianity.

[Rooster]

And honestly, there weren't THAT many people around way back in the crusades... so I highly doubt the the high profile inquisition actually compared to oh, say, 19 fuck-tards that flew 2 planes into 2 buildings killing 3000 people.

And please, the Inquisition, the Crusades.. that was freaking 800-1000 years ago. Uhh... GIVE IT A REST. Geez'o'man, talk about holding a grudge. We didn't even take their land. Now, if the American Indians rose up and started kicking some ass, demanding their land back, we'd have a regular ole' Palestinian type problem on our hands.

No one seems to give a rats ass that these islamics STILL try and jihad, but no one calls them racist evil bastards. They're just oppressed and we need to understand why they hate us! Fuck'em. Kill'em all, let God sort'em out. Okay, not really, but I certainly don't feel bad when we kill 20 to 30 muslims shooting at our guys.

[PoxTheSmall]

I come from a Muslim background. I know how screwed up a religion it is. The majority of my father's side is currently living in Turkey and I've been there several times. Turkey being much more modern than a lot of the other areas of the Middle East in terms of philosophy it's STILL a good 100 years behind America in terms of fairness to wrong-doers. Hell, they still have a semi bastardized "eye for an eye" system there, where they beat thieves feat until they bleed and torture isn't unheard of in certain areas.

[Swifty_Johnson]

Some people need to look at history.

The area of Turkey,Syria,Egypt,Albania and Kosovo were all Christan at one time, now they are Islamic. You want to know how? The muslims invaded those areas and basically told the people, convert to Islam or die.

Those evil Crusades the muslims keep whinning about.

They basically saved Europe from that fate.

The world at the time wasn't a nice place to live, so trying to compare massacre tallies Christain vs Muslim is kinda pointless.

Swifty

[Grundy]

Its intellectually dishonest to take make sweeping generalizations against a whole group of people that follow the form: All Muslims are this...or All Christians are this....etc.

Its much more accurate if you attribute specific actions and statements to the specific individuals who make them.

[Hammer]

I was afraid Americans would have to pay for CBS ratings. Unfortunately there are no adjectives left for this story. They all got used up on the nekky pictures.

[PoxTheSmall]

I personally feel justified in hating the way a culture functions based on living in that culture and being from it. I completely hate the "you made me do this" belief system when actions are taken as a result. I see the baseless completely nonsensical threats that some of these islamic groups are making and understand that for the most part they're bs just meant to intimidate (another common operating system that's very middle eastern). It stinks to feel really enraged by the irony in these al-Quada murdering a person for crimes against "Alah" by tormenting prisoners. It's like a crack-whore calling a casual pot smoker a basehead.

[Swifty_Johnson]

The people on the tape said they will start doing that to U.S. troops.

If they thought the treament of Iraqi was bad before, if a video airs of that happening to U.S. troops, Iraqis will be in for a very very ruff time. Payback is going to be a bitch.

Swifty

[Rooster]

Doing what, stacking our guys in nekky human pyramids? Uhhh... that's not really new for us Americans, is it?

[Swifty_Johnson]

No, the terrorist said they'll start beheading American POWs, when that happens the retaliation will make the prison abuse look like childs play.

Swifty

[Rooster]

And strengthen the resolve of the US to defeat these people.

[Kegg OBeer]

I think the only thing these people will ever understand is violence. If they kill one of ours, we have to kill a thousand of theirs. Eventually either they will stop, or they'll be extinct. Either way, they'll have brought it on themselves.

[Noleader]

It's a religion of violence.
That is a unfair blanket statment. It is a religion of peace. Like all religions though you have a extreme sect that exploits the weak for their bidding.

[Kegg OBeer]

The Koran is a warrior code that was adopted as a religion. In it's beginning it was created as a religion of violence. Some people have chosen to adopt more peaceful versions of it as time went on, but at it's base it's still a religion based around violence.

[Allison]

Have you ever read the Koran, Kegg? What are you basing this opinion on?

[]LoL[Harm]

Kegg, the Koran is no different then the Bible. The beginnings of the book are riddled with God dealing out death and suffering, just like the Bible, however after the appearence of their messiah, just like the Bible, words of peace and acceptance were preached.

If we could ever get the two religions together maybe they'd finally realize they might be worshipping the same God.

[Noleader]

LoL[Harm']Kegg, the Koran is no different then the Bible. The beginnings of the book are riddled with God dealing out death and suffering, just like the Bible, however after the appearence of their messiah, just like the Bible, words of peace and acceptance were preached.

If we could ever get the two religions together maybe they'd finally realize they might be worshipping the same God.
Yep.

[Noleader]

Wow... You guys need to read back though your posts... Lots of hate in this thread. For that matter it is directed at a large group of people when the ones that are causing the problem are a small sect.

[Rooster]

well, there are some unfortunate passages in the Koran that implore the faithful to slay the infidels... and likely are taken by the militants out of context, or perhaps intentionally ignoring other parts of the Koran.

Good stuff here:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=183355

[Rooster]

Noleader, I will not apologize for any hate I feel for people that wish to murder our citizens. I know you're probably not meaning me...

But it is NOT wrong to hate those that wish to kill you and your family just because you are American. (It may not be very Christian, but it's not wrong).

[Noleader]

Noleader, I will not apologize for any hate I feel for people that wish to murder our citizens. I know you're probably not meaning me...

But it is NOT wrong to hate those that wish to kill you and your family just because you are American. (It may not be very Christian, but it's not wrong).
Nothing wrong with hating terrorists... Hell I will spend hours debating why we should just nuke them and be done with it :)

I have a issue with people just painting a whole group of people (Black, White, Jew, Muslim, etc...) as bad, evil, and hateful. Why should be target a whole, peaceful, religion when it is just a very small number of them that hate us and attack us.

[Rooster]

Because it's "small number" of troublemakers is greater than any other troublemakers.

[Swifty_Johnson]

Lots of hate in this thread. For that matter it is directed at a large group of people when the ones that are causing the problem are a small sect.

For an awefully "small" sect, they shure do have big numbers.

To me, if you sit back and let this happen and don't speak out, you are just as guilty as the one doing the crime.

If you give money to the terrorist, your hands are just as bloody.

If you encourage them to go out and kill, you are just as guilty.

The arabs have to know, that as long as they let these terrorist move through their lands, kill people, and let the terrorists slip back through their lands, we will view them in the same light as the terrorists.

Swifty

[]LoL[Harm]

What would you have them do swifty?

Would you risk your family and your health on going against a well armed militia that worshipped your beliefs, gave you food and water and protected you at night from criminals but that also attack, kill and torture some foreigners that you don't even know and who do not even live in your country? You have to remember they are probably JUST like the majority of the US (you know the 60% of us who don't vote), they don't give two shits who is ruling them they just want food, water, shelter and safety.

You need to take in the situation, unless you're not talking about the "normal" people and are centering more on the leaders. There are millions of people there that just want to live a nice happy life and risking their entire family to try and stop some people that are armed with RPG's and AK's would be suicide for them and a death sentence for their children, and any family member within reach.

The arabs have to know, that as long as they let these terrorist move through their lands, kill people, and let the terrorists slip back through their lands, we will view them in the same light as the terrorists.
It is this type of blind edict that they too use against us: "As long as Americans support their government that give weapons to those that oppose us and persecute our religion we will view them all in the same light."

This is called prejudice. As an enlightened, so called "better" society I would hope more from an American.

Now if you are talking about their leaders and needing them to hire and pay for a local militia that will try and stop terrorist from moving about their towns I can go for that, but to expect the average family to do so is not reasonable. Especially for families that have very little nationalism.

[Swifty_Johnson]

Now if you are talking about their leaders and needing them to hire and pay for a local militia that will try and stop terrorist from moving about their towns I can go for that, but to expect the average family to do so is not reasonable. Especially for families that have very little nationalism

Except the leaders will not act without the support of the people.

The choice is theirs.

Continue to support terrorists, and be considered terrorists.

Work with the world and remove the terrorists.

Swifty

[Rooster]

"Enlightenment" is overrated.

[]LoL[Harm]

Then always expect the same in return.

Continue to support terrorists, and be considered terrorists.From the eyes of those that oppose us:

"You are an American, you are heartless, murdering person who supplies weapons in a stilted war against the Palestinians, who created Osama bin Laden, who funded and created the current government in Iran, who is blind, shortsigthed and often confused in their attempts at nation building. It is you who support terrorism."

It is when we judge all people of a nation by the actions of its extreme factions, that we blind ourselves to their plight. They are more a victim of terrorism then we will ever be, and helplessness is a devestating psychological state.

There was this experiment done in the early part of the 1900's where they took a dog and put it in a cage. The cage was divided into two portions, with separate panels on each floor capable of an electric current. There was a way to get to the other side by jumping over a small wall that acted as the divider. They found that as they applied current (enough to cause much pain but not death) to one panel the dog jumped to the other side which lacked any current. This proved the dog would attempt to escape the pain. They then applied current to both sides, the dog jumped from side to side for a short bit and howled, whimpered and cried out in pain. However after a period of time within the experiment it gave up and even laid down on the electrified floor. In the next stage of the experiment they opened a door leading out of the cage. No amount of indirect prodding would get the dog to leave its cage (i.e. offering food, toy or any other external stimuli). They even took a leash and tugged the dog in the direction but the dog still chose to just sit there and not move away from the constant pain. They had to show the dog, over and over again, by dragging it from the cage by its leash that it had an escape from the pain. Eventually it learned.

They attribute this experiment with discovering a psychological disorder of helplessness. It is often found in physically and emotionally abused spouses and children. I believe it can also be applied to oppressed people under a regime such as Saddam's. It will take more than bullets and condemnation from people like you Swifty to convince them to come out of their cage. But I suppose we can just shoot them since they apparently support the terrorist. That should solve the problem.

Perhaps they should have just shot the dog as well.

[]LoL[Harm]

"Enlightenment" is overrated.
I suppose education is too then, since that is what leads to enlightenment.

[Swifty_Johnson]

They attribute this experiment with discovering a psychological disorder of helplessness. It is often found in physically and emotionally abused spouses and children. I believe it can also be applied to oppressed people under a regime such as Saddam's. It will take more than bullets and condemnation from people like you Swifty to convince them to come out of their cage. But I suppose we can just shoot them since they apparently support the terrorist. That should solve the problem.

Wow, what an extreamist view.

Everyday now, more and more Iraqis are helping rebuild their country and stand up to the terrorists. Unlike the dog, the people of Iraq are thinking people. (and those who conducted that expirement should spend just as much time in that cage.) They'll tire of being looked at like terrorists, and they'll take steps aginst it. The killing of Nick Berg is sending a shockwave through Iraq, not only becasue of it's brutality, but becasue they are finally realise that we think that's what Iraqi and Arabs do.
Hopefully that will motivate more to stand up for a better country, seeing the reaction of some Iraqis, I think it will.

This is what I am talking about. By showing the main-street Iraqis this is what we think Islam is all about, we are going to get positive changes.

Swifty

[]LoL[Harm]

I agree with your last post.

But lumping in those people who are too scared, and feeling too hopeless to do these things that you mentioned above, in with the terrorist is wrong.

Wow, what an extreamist view.That view was sarcasm. Since you call people who do not help against the terrorist, without considering their circumstances, as terrorist themselves I just played it out to your logical end, which would be to shoot them, just like the real terrorist.

Oh and I think there is away you could view that last paragraph as meaning you should shoot the abused women and children, there is a subject shift there that isn't readily noticable but the change is in bold: They attribute this experiment with discovering a psychological disorder of helplessness. It is often found in physically and emotionally abused spouses and children. I believe it can also be applied to oppressed people under a regime such as Saddam's. It will take more than bullets and condemnation from people like you Swifty to convince them to come out of their cage. But I suppose we can just shoot them since they apparently support the terrorist. That should solve the problem. When I say we should shoot them I am referring to those in Iraq that are not helping fight terrorism, who you categorize as terrorist.

[Rooster]

LoL[Harm']I suppose education is too then, since that is what leads to enlightenment.Not if the education is based on falsehoods.

[]LoL[Harm]

your definition of education is my definition for deception and lies.