Bush on Arab television today

[Allison]

We believe in transparency. ...except in our energy commissions! Haha! I couldn't resist. ;)

[Noleader]

...except in our energy commissions! Haha! I couldn't resist. ;)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This administration pulled the National Security card more times then I can count.

[Rooster]

Well duh. It's supposed to.

[Noleader]

Well duh. It's supposed to.Yea... kinda like when they defied a court order to produce witnesses because of national security... This was after the judge laid out steps in place to protect the nations intrests...

National Security = Get out of jail free card with this administration.

[Allison]

Hehe ... except when the secret stuff makes them look good or their opponents look bad ... then it's declassify time!! "Secret? Who said it was secret? We hate secrets!"

Lol, OK ... I'm just being evil now. :)

[Swifty_Johnson]

Yea... kinda like when they defied a court order to produce witnesses because of national security... This was after the judge laid out steps in place to protect the nations intrests...

Except this witnesses they want is in Pakistan's jail, not in a U.S. jail. There are vaild reasons for preventing accesses to him, unfortuantly some people are just too blinded by politics to see it.

Swifty

[Allison]

Meh... Swifty, please don't disrupt my obviously very funny and witty thread with personal attacks on forum members. :p

[Noleader]

Except this witnesses they want is in Pakistan's jail, not in a U.S. jail. There are vaild reasons for preventing accesses to him, unfortuantly some people are just too blinded by politics to see it.

Swifty
Getting them into american hands was not the issue (It was Germany BTW). The DA told the judge we refuse to comply and not that they could not obtain the person in question.

[Hammer]

Is anybody else tired of this story beside me? It was wrong, those involved were charge over a month ago, but nobody seem to give a crap until the pictures were released. Most people seem to be shocked by them but I was kinda relieved. I had been lead to believe they were being tortured. You know, electic shock, members cut off, summary executions, actual torture. I have seen college hazing pranks that were much worse than what was detailed in those pictures. You would think they had been shot/burnt/mutilated drug through the street and hung from bridges.

[Boom]

It was more humiliation then physical torture from the pictures I saw. But I'm still mad about it. We are supposed to be the good guys. :(

But Hammer is right, it doesn't compare to Saddam torture, he would just cut off random parts of people.

[Jobius]

Don't forget the car batteries hooked up to the berries. :eek:

[Hammer]

It was definitely wrong, it's just being covered out of proportion to it's significants. I'm also a little conflicted about the torture thing in general. We don't as a policy use torture, but we apparently do ship people off to Jordan/Egypt for help when sleep deprivation and yelling don't get the job done. I see no difference in us doing it, or handing someone off to be tortured by others.

[Allison]

Meh .. you guys aren't gonna let me have my funny, are you?

OK, hmmm.. I wouldn't say I'm exactly tired of the story. I mean yeah, here at home, it's a blip. I'm personally not surprised that this stuff goes on. I'm sure it happens in every war. But, I think it becoming public is a heck of a lot more than a blip in the Arab world. We weren't trusted before, and these pictures, whether rightfully so or not, have set us back even further. It was a devastating blow to our credibility, has invited unwanted international scrutiny, may affect the way American prisoners are treated in the future, and may hamper our ability to continue to do what needs to be done in Iraq. It was a major F-up.

Having said all that, I think the administration is handling it the best they can. I would have liked to see Bush do what so many of those under him have done, apologize. But, other than that, they're doing just about everything they can to try and diffuse the situation.

Something that really bothers me about all this ... and I know this sounds awful ... is what in the world were they thinking taking trophy pictures? I mean, yeah, the humiliation and stuff was awful and shouldn't have happened. But as I've already said, I expect this sort of thing is going to happen here and there in a war. That doesn't surprise me. What does surprise me is the arrogance and stupidity of taking those pictures. I mean come on, a little discretion with the abuse please. If you're going to do what you're going to do, that's one thing. But don't undermine the entire war effort, create an international outcry, and force our national leaders to go around apologizing with their tails between their legs by taking pictures of it.

[Allison]

but we apparently do ship people off to Jordan/Egypt for help when sleep deprivation and yelling don't get the job done. I see no difference in us doing it, or handing someone off to be tortured by others.
Shhhh, Hammer. We don't like to know these things.

[Swifty_Johnson]

Getting them into american hands was not the issue (It was Germany BTW).

What was Germany? The main guy that everyone wants to talk to is in Pakistan. They posted a picture of his capture, the dishelved guy with the stunned bunny look sitting in the bed.

Swifty