Bush under attack, pulls ahead of Kerry

[Swifty_Johnson]

At a time when Kerry needs to be ahead, he instead finds himself trailing in the polls. Bush, under attack is not loosing ground to Kerry, instead he is gaining. Is it time to stick a fork in Kerry?

Swifty

[Sparky]

I don't get it? where would you stick the fork? in his eye?

[spyder913]

trailing..... 5%

[Swifty_Johnson]

Latest polls have Bush ahead by 6%, 50-44.

Swifty

[Allison]

And it only took 55 million to pull ahead. Wheeeeeeeeee ....

Fasten your seat belts, boys!

[spyder913]

Little Change in Presidential Contest
Bush approval still at 52%

http://www.gallup.com/content/?ci=11419

In the past three weeks, the figures have fluctuated within a small range, suggesting no real change in the preferences of American voters over that time.

[Hammer]

I think this race will unfold much like Hillary's in NY. No one cares about Kerry or anything he has to say. It's strickly votes for or against Bush.

[Allison]

Yes, that's often true of the encumbent. Although this year, moreso.

People don't like change, so they won't vote someone out of office as long as most people think he's doing a decent job.

[]LoL[Harm]

I love change, I think we should do what Columbia does and many other countries. No re-elections. A single term.

[Rooster]

Because they're such bastions of Democracy and have proven their methods are better! :p

[Justar]

I specifically remember watching the news one night.

Interviewer: So who did you vote for?
Person: Kerry.
Interviewer: How did you decide to vote for him?
Person: I think he can beat bush.


Kinda sick and retarded if you ask me, but that oversimplification of it goes to show the voting system sucks ass...bad.

I'd like to see a ballot that had political views on it, not names. vote for the views you support. Whichever candidate matches most views wins.

[Popo]

No one cares about Kerry or anything he has to say.


How do you figure this??

[Eiru]

Who said, "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others"?

[Airr]

And it only took 55 million to pull ahead. Wheeeeeeeeee ....

Fasten your seat belts, boys!
Hahahah

/em getting popcorn ready for the show

[Swifty_Johnson]

Looks like Kerry's worst enemy is, Kerry!

His wifes refusal to submit her tax returns, and his waffeling on exposing his service record while the democrats have hammered Bush on his is starting to take it's toll.

Swifty

[Jobius]

I'm just trying to figure out how anyone could vote for either of these two yahoo's. :bang:

[]LoL[Harm]

Amen, praise Allah, and praise Buddha and the Three Sacred Jewels to that Jobius.

[Kegg OBeer]

I specifically remember watching the news one night.

Interviewer: So who did you vote for?
Person: Kerry.
Interviewer: How did you decide to vote for him?
Person: I think he can beat bush.


It beats what I saw in the news during the last election:

Interviewer: Who are you going to vote for?
Person: Gore
Interviewer: Why's that?
Person: Because he's a democrat and I'm democratic!

Or the other thing I saw with Jesse Jackson driving a bus around the ghettos in Chicago offering a free chicken dinner to anyone that voted for Gore.

Now try and tell me these guys aren't actually trying to take advantage of the general stupidity of the american people... Unfortunately there's a lot more stupid people than there are halfway intelligent ones...
:stupid:

[Eiru]

Stoopid bell curve!

[Swifty_Johnson]

I'm just trying to figure out how anyone could vote for either of these two yahoo's.

Quit simple really, Kerry is bad for the U.S.A. and Bush is much better.

Is Bush the perfect person for me? No, but he's a hell of allot better than Kerry.

In case most people don't realise, there is a very slim chance that Kerry will win, and the democrats don't want him to win. Kerry winning would be the worst thing that can happen to the democrats. They do not have control of the house or the sentate, and with Kerry in office, stand to loose even more seats on both houses.

With Bush in Office, 2006 will become the year the democrats try to take back the house, and in 2008, without a strong Republican to take over for Bush, they have a much better chance to take the Whitehouse with controll of at least one house of congress.

Swifty

[Allison]

Now try and tell me these guys aren't actually trying to take advantage of the general stupidity of the american people... Unfortunately there's a lot more stupid people than there are halfway intelligent ones...
:stupid:
Good thing for Bush, too. How else could he have convinced so many people that Iraq was a terrorist state? :p

[Rooster]

Oh, like it wasn't. Please. He was paying Hamas & other Jihadists to go and blow their asses up on buses full of Israelis.

[Swifty_Johnson]

Oh, like it wasn't. Please. He was paying Hamas & other Jihadists to go and blow their asses up on buses full of Israelis.

You know, here at work some dumb-ass liberials were crying about the Iraq invasion and I said "Iraq was a terrorist state, Saddam was funding Palestanian terrorists and paying thier families large sums of money when they blew themselfs up and killed Israelis."

Their reply, "Where did you get that garbage from? Rush Limbaugh, that's a lie."

Humm, to bad I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh and anyone who watched the news would have known about Saddam's payments.

It's funny to see them work so hard at being ignorant.

Swifty

[Rooster]

And while Rush may slant things to be polarizing against the libs... I (highly) doubt he out-and-out lies about anything.

Saddam's cash incentive:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/03/25/1017004766310.html

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=328728

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,49462,00.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/04/03/world/main505316.shtml

http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=2002/4/9/174649

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2846365.stm

http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/diplomacy/articles/dip_0202.htm (http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/diplomacy/articles/dip_0202.htm)

LIES ALL LIES!!
:owned:

[Sparky]

And while Rush may slant things to be polarizing against the libs... I (highly) doubt he out-and-out lies about anything.

Saddam's cash incentive:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/03/25/1017004766310.html

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=328728

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,49462,00.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/04/03/world/main505316.shtml

http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=2002/4/9/174649

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2846365.stm

http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/diplomacy/articles/dip_0202.htm (http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/diplomacy/articles/dip_0202.htm)

LIES ALL LIES!!
:owned:


If you're trying to get a message across getting paid to kill yourself and others is not the way.

[Allison]

Good grief. Take a pill or something, guys. Let me rephrase my little joke:

Unfortunately there's a lot more stupid people than there are halfway intelligent ones...Good thing for Bush, too. How else could he have convinced so many people that Iraq was [currently engaged in acts of terrorism against the United States]? http://lol.compbuddy.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Sheesh.

[Swifty_Johnson]

[quote]Good thing for Bush, too. How else could he have convinced so many people that Iraq was [currently engaged in acts of terrorism against the United States]? [/quote[

Than there was the terrorist training camp S of Bagdadgh with the airplane for the terrorists to pratice storming.

Than there was the terrorist who killed American Leon Klinghoffer on the Achille Lorien who was seized in Iraq by U.S. forces.

:)

Swifty

[Sparky]

*hugs alli*

[Allison]

There has been no Iraqi-sponsored terrorism against the U.S. since 1993.

Jesus, I can't even make a friggin joke around here without people getting their panties in a bunch.

[Allison]

Lol, Sparkles. :)

[Eiru]

Haha! Ailia said "panties"!

[Sparky]

Haha! Ailia said "panties"!

panties rhymes with boobies!

[Eiru]

I'd vote for Bush if he promoted more boobies.

[Sparky]

So has he officially given up on convincing the people that Iraq was [currently hiding weapons of mass destruction]?

[Kegg OBeer]

What scares me is if they're planning to run Hillary in 2008...

[Swifty_Johnson]

Geeze, I can't poke fun at Alli poking fun at the rest of us without her loosing her panties.

Swifty

[Badger]

What scares me most is the amount of Communists who have infiltrated our government and media.

Democrats didnt used to be like this. Republicans now are what Democrats were like 50+ years ago.

[Allison]

Lol, your communist statement doesn't hold much water. Perhaps you mean socialists. ;)

But, I'll agree with you on one point, Badger. The lines between what is Republican, conservative, Democratic and liberal certainly have blurred and moved. I'm not even sure what those terms mean anymore, but it's clear to me that the labels we use aren't sufficent to describe a person's beliefs across a spectrum of issues.

[Figtoria]

Here's what scares me:


http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=2&articleID=0001E02A-A14A-1084-983483414B7F0000

[Rooster]

Nah, those EPA regulations are a joke. Charlotte/Mecklenburg has been deemed a pollution zone, even though our pollution has been going down in the last 8 years (proven by their own meters).

They just changed the standards so we'd fall into the "danger zone" and give the Enviro-wackos something to scream about.

[Badger]

Lol, your communist statement doesn't hold much water. Perhaps you mean socialists. ;)

But, I'll agree with you on one point, Badger. The lines between what is Republican, conservative, Democratic and liberal certainly have blurred and moved. I'm not even sure what those terms mean anymore, but it's clear to me that the labels we use aren't sufficent to describe a person's beliefs across a spectrum of issues.


My Communist statement meaning comes from the Communist Manifesto. Marx said that the way to pure Communism is through Socialism. Thats what I meant to say. Seeing as how most of the world is Socialist to some degree, and Government never gives up power once gained....well you get the picture.

Currently the (most of) Democrats support every subversive behavior imaginable, they are anti-capitalism, they want our Constitution re-written by appointed Federal judges and are even stone-walling the repeal of the 17th Amendment measure introduced by Democrat Senator Zell Miller (whom I really like).

Now I can say I dislike some things Bush has done/proposed, like lots of the Patriot Act that allows violations of our basic rights, Illegal Alien status and cozying up to Latinos for votes. His failure to pull out of the UN, which is corrupt and bloated IMO. His giving billions of tax dollars to foreign states wh o will never pay us back. And his seeming unwillingness to do what needs to be done in the War we are in because of political reasons. But for the most part I find Bush to be a strong governor (Im from Texas) and a fairly honest man. I dont for one second think I need to know his reason for every action he takes like the news media and the MoveOn.org peeps say we do. He was elected to do a job, in his own way, and has done so. Cant ask for more really.

Kerry on the other hand is a plain and right out Commie pig, I have looked at his voting record, how he is filthy rich and yet trashes well-off people, he wants to RAISE my taxes, how he lies about everything under the sun, then has the gall to say he doesnt lie?? WTF? I mean that guy couldnt make up his mind on his damn underwear if he thought it would mean votes. He is a pure bullshitting politician who really needs to consider what the USA stands for, and then promptly move to Canada or France. His heroism in Vietnam was great, but nothing special compared to other men there, and those who died. While I dont think Nam was a well fought war due to politics, I am wholly disgusted by his bullshit about his medals. I cant accept his saying he is a patriot when he then came home and slamed every soldier who fought there, for tossing his medals away, then blaming Nixon for the war, when it was JFK and LBJ that got us INTO that one, Nixon got us OUT for cryin out loud.

And if we want to bring up Vietnam records like they do on Bush, well Clinton was where during Vietnam? Yeah the USSR baby. And yes I thought Clinton was scum, I know people that worked for him and other US officials in Arkanasas when he was Governor.

IMO the current Democrat party is bankrupt on ideas and morals. They need to go back to their roots or disband, cuz they wont get my votes till they stop the Socialist crap.

The USA is about freedom and liberty, Socialism only takes those away.

[Rooster]

You forgot the entitlement mentality they promote.

[Allison]

Lol, he forgot something in all that?

[Noleader]

Latest polls have Bush ahead by 6%, 50-44.

Swifty
Gore was ahead in the polls to :/

[Rooster]

When WASN'T Gore or Clinton ahead in the polls? That was their life.

[Noleader]

When WASN'T Gore or Clinton ahead in the polls? That was their life.
And Gore lost in 2000... Just goes to show how good these polls are. Sampling error could flip the results in favor of Kerry.

[spyder913]

Just goes to show how good these polls are.They're actually quite accurate, within their margin of error. When the spread is less than the margin of error, then they become harder to use to predict the outcome.

[Badger]

With Kerrys own party attacking him and the news media attacking him...well its 6 months away but I see him having a hard time winning. Americans dont want a New England Socialist-Democrat for President.

[Swifty_Johnson]

The problem with Kerry is, he should be ahead in the polls at this point, not tied or behind. Thing will only get worse for him, so unless he can get getting the lead before the convention, he's done. (barring any major events.)

Swifty

[Allison]

Kerry's got an uphill battle, that's for sure.

What he needs to do is, literally, roll his sleeves up more often, plant a tree at a children's hospital or something equally earthy, kiss some babies, come up with an appealing slogan that has no real meaning but sounds good, and be seen smiling at every opportunity. (Good grief, who's advising this guy? Someone tell him to smile, for Pete's sake.) That's what wins elections.

Oh, I almost forgot. He needs to make sure that the leftest of the left attack Bush in the most ferocious manner ... not on his policies, because hey, who cares about those ... but on his "character," all the while maintaining plausible deniability that he had anything to do with those most heinous and unfair attacks.

Oh, and push-polling. Gotta have that: Hello Mr. Conservative White Man from Alabama, if you knew GWB had an illegitimate child with a black woman in Texas, would you say that would affect your opinion of him very much, very little, or not at all? OK, and if you knew that GWB used cocaine every morning in the oval office, do you think that would impair his ability to do his job? Very much, very little, or not at all?

Hehe, don't mind me. I get this way every election. When will people stop being so easily manipulated? Baaaaaaaaaaaa.

[Swifty_Johnson]

Someone needs to tell Kerry to keep his mouth shut.

ABC news found some footage of Kerry in the 80s saying he threw his medals away, not his ribbions.

Kerry than launched into a triad on the "republican" attack machine (ABC isn't affilated with the republican party) and than attacked the president's service in the guard. (something Kerry said he wouldn't do, oopps another waffle.)

He's not getting anywhere fast, and in reinforcing the negatives about himself.

Swifty

[Allison]

Yeah yeah... 30 years ago, Bush was a no-direction party-boy, and Kerry lied about throwing medals he may have gotten through dubious means.

Big whoop. Who gives a flying F about their youthful transgressions? It's all smoke and mirrors designed by political spin-meisters to convince voters of the questionable "character" of the other guy. Why? Not because any of them think any of it really matters, but because they know it's the easiest, most cost-effective way to influence voters. We (we, the nation) shouldn't even be talking about this stuff, and we certainly shouldn't allow it to determine our vote. Unless, of course, we believe that only someone who has never made any mistakes in his life should be president.

I'm just so tired of the way elections are run, and so tired of how many people buy into the rhetoric without question.

[Swifty_Johnson]

Big whoop. Who gives a flying F about their youthful transgressions? It's all smoke and mirrors designed by political spin-meisters to convince voters of the questionable "character" of the other guy.

Well while the democrats are attacking Bush's service, not one person invovled in Bush's campagin has attacked Kerry over his wounds, medals, or his protests after the war. The media was doing it, not as Kerry charged "The Republican attack machine."

Swifty

[Allison]

Whatever, Swifty. Both sides are doing it. And as long as they are, or as long as they allow others to do it for them, I'm not going to get lured into a partisan debate about who's worse, or better, at it.

[Swifty_Johnson]

Both sides are doing it, we know the democrats are doing it, can you prove the Republican's are? (I do admit it's early)

Swifty

[Allison]

Good lord, Swifty. Is this one of those times you were talking about where you're just pulling my chain? You honestly haven't seen any Republican character attacks on Kerry? Jeebus, do a google search, you'll find plenty.

[]LoL[Harm]

Both sides are doing it, we know the democrats are doing it, can you prove the Republican's are? (I do admit it's early)

Swifty

Oh boy.

[Rooster]

Even I didn't go there Swifty.

[Swifty_Johnson]

I've seen plenty of attacks on Kerry's voting record and how he's going to pay for his programs, but I've yet to see Bush or Cheny bring to questions Kerry's actions in vietnam nor his protests afterwards. I've yet to see any Character based attacks launched by Bush.

Unlike the democrats who were falling over themslefs today to lauch dozens of them at Bush as this is nearing the 1 year anniversy of him landing on the carrier. Again all the Democrats are doing in inspiring militants to kill more Americans in Iraq and they don't seem to care one bit.

Swifty

[Allison]

Lol, whatever you say, Swifty.

[Swifty_Johnson]

Well Alli, if you've seen Character attacks launched by Bush than show them. That's all I've asked you to do, show me the attacks.

Swifty

[Allison]

First we were talking about parties, then you mentioned the Bush campaign, and now you're saying Bush himself hasn't made any personal attacks.

Before you ask me again to do your research for you, maybe your should clarify who it is, exactly, you're claiming hasn't made personal attacks. That way, after I show you some quotes, we can save a little time on, "I wasn't talking about him," and move straight on to, "It's not a character attack if it's true." :p

Also, since this is your topic, do you want to narrow the field to just war service? Or do you count things like, John Kerry "would delay defending America until the U.N. approved?" What do you call a character attack?
Do you want to include unfair or misleading advertising?

[Swifty_Johnson]

By the Bush campaign, in an offical ad or statement. That's broad enough. See if there are any character attacks by them.

Or do you count things like, John Kerry "would delay defending America until the U.N. approved?" What do you call a character attack?

Do you? Kerry is on the record saying we should have waited for U.N. approval, so I can hardly see this as an unwarrented character attack.

Swifty

[Allison]

No he isn't. He's on record as saying we didn't work hard enough to get UN approval before going in. As far as I know, he's never said he wouldn't have gone in without it. Not to mention the fallacy of the "delay defending America" bit. So yes, I count it.

And do you really think an official statement from the official Bush campaign is broad? Are you really so naive and ignorant of the campaign process as to think that, first off, an encumbent should or would personally dirty his own hands, and second, that if something doesn't come from the official campaign, it's not endorsed and encouraged by them?



I stand by my original statement:Both sides are doing it. And as long as they are, or as long as they allow others to do it for them, I'm not going to get lured into a partisan debate about who's worse, or better, at it.And that's all I'm going to say on the subject. I didn't start this discussion in a partisan way and I'm not going to go there. I was talking about the general unpleasantness of common campaign tactics, and people's willingness to buy into them. If you really beleive that only Democrats are guilty of these tactics, then I'd suggest you expand your news sources a bit.

[Swifty_Johnson]

No he isn't. He's on record as saying we didn't work hard enough to get UN approval before going in. As far as I know, he's never said he wouldn't have gone in without it.

So he is raising a big stink about no U.N. approval for the war, yet you are saying that he would have went in without U.N. approval now? Another flip flop on Kerry's part.

Are you really so naive and ignorant of the campaign process as to think that, first off, an encumbent should or would personally dirty his own hands, and second, that if something doesn't come from the official campaign, it's not endorsed and encouraged by them?

I've pointed out specific character attacks by Kerry aginst Bush and Cheney. These attacks were not by operativites few times removed from the campaign encourged by Kerry, they came straight from his mouth.

I was talking about the general unpleasantness of common campaign tactics, and people's willingness to buy into them. If you really beleive that only Democrats are guilty of these tactics, then I'd suggest you expand your news sources a bit.

Except you have failed to show the Bush campaign actually resorting to vague character attacks vs policy attacks like Kerry camp has done.

Swifty

[Swifty_Johnson]

I'll give you some help in hunting stuff down.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4497771/

Swifty

[Allison]

I'm glad to see you're doing a little research. :)

[Badger]

I agree with Swifty.

Bush Team is criticising Kerry as a politician.
Kerry Team is accusing Bush of everything from drug use, to war crimes.

Personally I dont care if Bush used drugs, he dont now. What I DO care about is a man trashing our country the way Kerry has, verbally and literally. If Bush had a bastard child, well shame on him, but that dont mean he cant govern. Kerry? I dont like his way of doing things. He has no core position.

[Allison]

I agree with Swifty.


Kerry Team is accusing Bush of everything from drug use, to war crimes.

:rolly:

Come on, I think even Swifty would agree this isn't true.

And before you go start spreading rumors about Bush's illegitimate child, let me be clear: That was just an example of push polling. There is absolutely no basis for it.

[Swifty_Johnson]

I haven't seen any Kerry attacks on drug use or war crimes, yet. They prob saving those for later when they get really desperate.

I've yet to see any Bush campaign attacks on anything other than Kerry the politician. Everything has been based on what Kerry has done in office, none on his personal life.

Swifty