The price of stupidity

[PoxTheSmall]

I think it might be smart to list all the frequently asked for scrolls on alliance and have a toon logged at the market explorers in housing, to query for items asked for. Then you can run out and buy the scroll or item in question and charge 2x the asked amount, that you paid for on the merchants themselves...I think that'd be a fast way to make money and also punnish the morons spamming alliance.

[crendalerst]

agreed, that or boot guilds who have members consistently spamming.

[PoxTheSmall]

I'm so very behind the idea of booting guilds who consistantly spam, but I don't think the alliance leader atm really enforces any anti-spam rule. It'd be really nice if there was more of a crack down on idiots spamming. Lately, I've been asking folks to check the market explorer first before spamming the hell out of /as, because I myself have some scrolls on my merchant that are commonly asked for on alliance, and none of my scrolls go over 700 gold (only the rarest are at that range). It's just stupid when someone says "I don't have money to pay 2 plat for xyz scroll" when I've gotten a majority of my artifacts activated from scrolls I found in housing and never really paid more than 500-700 gold for any of them.

[Boom]

Some people actually have /as spam macros now and hit a few at a time every 15 min or so. :(

Spammer: Wtb blah blah scroll 2 and blah blah scroll 3.
Spammer: Wtb diamond seals 10g.
Random hib: Jeez are those macros?
Spammer: heheh, yup
Spammer: Wtb blah blah scroll 2 and blah blah scroll 3.
Spammer: Wtb diamond seals 10g.

[PoxTheSmall]

Some hibs need to be shot. I'm glad Shortstak's gone at least, that dude's spam was outrageous.

[Figtoria]

Is he actually gone??

wooooooooooooot!

[crendalerst]

yeah shortstak is gone to mid, he joined genocyde.. hehe poor suckers.

[PoxTheSmall]

Btw, Crend, who the f*** are VG and what's the deal with the constant 3 groups with 6 healers running around Emain, nightly?

[crendalerst]

varangian guard, they've been around for a long time.. and they'd also be the 3 groups with 6 healers running around emain nightly. Pretty tough to beat especialy seeing they pbae. They're all good players and could hold their own fine in 8v8, not sure exatly why they have been rolling with so many.. for more info please see the post on vn entitled "VG=DOG." No offense meant to dog on my part, as they do seem to get offended easily on the zerg topic even if people just try to make a joke of it :(

[PoxTheSmall]

I can't check the VN from work, since its locked out, but I can troll here at least. I saw that thread last night.

Whenever I've seen Hixx in the last 2 weeks (the last 3 nights excluded) we've rolled their group in 8v8, even when it was them running 2 pbt and having 2 healers and a shammy...as well as a sm and 2 tank types.

They might be running with that many because they have a lot of new 50 healers or something. That's my semi-curiousity...because it's odd that suddenly, on a nightly basis there're a bunch of ass clowns in the frontier.

[Brey]

damn. Three times I tried to edit this after my I bombed out.

I give up



Bottom line. Someone spams - warn em
They ignore you - kick them out.



Someone too lazy to check housing? Warn em.
They do it again - kick em out.

Peace,
Moecha/Brey

[PoxTheSmall]

Sometimes, I want to send a tell to the spammer's GM to get them to tell their guildie to shut up, but most often, spammers stay anon. I suppose I should just check the herald or something.

[Morety]

Sending the guild's GM is the best route to take if it bothers you. Take a screenie in game, then send an email.

GM's aren't always on the same times as the spammers etc.

[PoxTheSmall]

Where should I send the screenshot of Elvis naked?

[Morety]

<-------- right here bahbee :D

[reme]

imo people need to stop complaining about spam, before market explorers there was craploads of spam for armor and various other items... hell there still is. scrolls were implemented by mythic and if u wanna blame someone.. blame mythic for causing this. if scrolls dropped consistantly and there weren't impossible scrolls. people wouldnt spam.

IN FACT, I hear alot more crap on alliance when people argue over people spamming, or complaints, or satire on spam.


my advice to all u people who are annoyed: be quiet about it and let it be. when scrolls are less of an issue for people to buy/sell, it will not be a problem.


I'm gettin pretty sick of people who complain about this and blame people. if u wanna do anything... go the pox route and capatolize on the situation.

[Brey]

There was never as much buying or selling in any alliance I have ever been in be it Albion, Midgard, or here on Pellinor Hibernia as there is now, and the alliance I was in on Albion Palomides was supposedly one of the top 5 largest alliances across all servers.

The big issue is the fact that there really isn't the need for more than half the spam. People are just too lazy to check the merchants. How many of you have seen the same person every single night for the last week 15x a night looking for Bences letter 2/3.

As to complaining over alliance chat about the spam - I agree that's a big no-no. We agreed (Hell I think every Pellinor alliance I have been in agreed to this) when we formed this alliance that /sending to spammers was way to go, and if they /ignore you then to get their GM involved.


People just need to be a bit more considerate of their fellow Hibbies is all. Park a bot at housing and check when u log in and out. Simple.

[PoxTheSmall]

I usually remind the noob spammers that're too lazy, that market explorers exist. Hell, my merchant has half the scrolls folks spam about and hasn't sold but 2 or 3 scrolls total. It's surprising, because as most folks know, I have a ton of active artifacts and most of the scrolls that I used in the making of these artifacts were gotten via market explorer.

I've asked several spammers, like folks who'll run a macro everytime they see their old spam scroll off alliance, to check a market explorer, and usually I get 1 of 2 responses. 1 being: "I don't know where housing is" and 2 being: "The scroll I want is too expensive in housing", no an outright "Housing doesn't have it", which is the 3rd most commonly answered response. I don't think I'd mind half as much, if folks took more initiative and actually pro-actively searched, but instead, most people tend to veer towards the lazy solution, which is just sitting back and spamming until they get results.

A little spam is absolutely fine, but like Noleader said, we DON'T want alliance to be like Diablo 2's trading channels where folks will straight macro stuff, and spam the living crap out of it. Also, when one person asks for something, usually, other folks chime in with a wish list. I've been trying lately to curb this a little more, by asking folks to please check housing first, and then if it's not there, to go ahead and use alliance, and not to spam more than 1 wtb per 30-60 minutes if they can avoid it. The reason I got annoyed by this, is that one guy in particular was tossing the same message up every 3-5 minutes, which imho is WAY too often.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to add, that alliance shouldn't be taken as a casual channel for folks to speak freely whenever they get a whim to. It's a cross guild communication method, where most folks who're interested in getting folks interested in a raid or rvr should go, not where folks rant, flame or peddle different stuff (the 3rd item is more foggy than the rest).

[Brey]

You and I are saying the same thing Pox :)

I have told a few people that the scrolls they are looking for are in housing within 5-15 minutes of me seeing several of them.

5 minutes later I see /as WTB 'Humpty Dumpty's Broken Shell scroll 3/3'

To one guy I asked if he got my message of not. This was the jist of the unbelieveable response "Yeah I wanna see if someone else has it that can deliver it to me cause I'm not too familiar with housing."

Wow.

[PoxTheSmall]

I should also mention that a majority of my guildies have turned off alliance as a result of the spam.

[reme]

the biggest problem is that mythic hasn't setup a static item trading chat channel. Hell that would be better than alliance because anyone from any alliance could be in it. Since that doesn't exsist u have to think about the quickest way to ask a mass of people. As for the spam, the only people who I feel are being inappropriate are the people who i KNOW aren't attempting to farm for sed scroll, but are instead sitting at fins expecting someone else to find it for them, or rvring. Whenever I ask alliance I am at the very least in toa killing something that will help me find the scroll through either directly killing it or something that drops another scroll for trade.


but like i say, if there was a static item trading channel it wouldn't happen over alliance, because there's no other way to get you message to more than 5-10 people at once, broad doesn't cover all that. On the Dreds the home cities are the only safe haven and you can do all kinda spamming in the broad channels in there, its great. But untill something like that exsists for normal servers u can bet that people will spam, and it just needs to be tolerated as well as you can :no:

[reme]

P.S. everquest has like 20 trading channels per server, all static.

[Brey]

Reme - Wishing we had a trade channel isn't going to solve our problem :)

I don't see Mythic helping us out with that anytime soon.

This topic was about the massive amount of spam causing many people to turn off their alliance chat (once again).

People need to be reminded that the alliance chat isnt just there for the 30 peoples whose text we see running by every night.

[reme]

doesnt matter brey, remind people or not they still need a way to ask around for scrolls, market explorers aren't the end all beat all... i know people with scrolls who dont even own a house let alone a merchant. there needs to be a place to compare scrolls with someone in order to trade/buy them, right now mythic hasn't fullfilled that need other than the current public channels. you can sit there and remind people all day but they won't have an alternative. toascrolls.com seems pretty nice, but it still doesnt cover everyone, I usually check there before even thinking of spamming, and since i only ask like 1-2 times a day i guess it can't really be considered spamming.

the stuff that needs to stop is the macros that are repeated more often than every 30mins.

[crendalerst]

"imo people need to stop complaining about spam"

reme you're one of the biggest spammers in the alliance, so of course you don't see it from other people's point of view, you're part of the problem.. It's like a murderer telling people to stop complaining about people dying.

[crendalerst]

also it does not need to be tolerated, people are breaking alliance rules, by spamming, so they should be disciplined as such.

[reme]

the fact that you claim I am one of the biggest spammers proves that you are ill-informed on this subject and are no longer suitable to argue this topic. Not to mention that you chose to bring it to personal attacks which makes you worse than any spammer out there. I will speak with the alliance leader next time i see her on, and discuss her views on a logical solution, since in the end, only she can order anything to be changed. Till then, I would appriciate it crend, if you would keep your opinion off of /as, if you think i'm wrong for trying to encourage people to move to toascrolls or this forum while not making them think i'm some /as nazi (which tends to piss people off), then by all means be sure to tell our alliance leader about it and I will talk to her myself. Also, if you think you "won" an argument on /as today, think again. As soon as you added your 2 cents I knew it was typical of you and decided to be the better person and not make a big deal about it over a chat channel that above all should have a little maturity.

P.S. I discovered a DA member using an alliance macro a bit back, I told him to cut it out and to try to keep any "WTB" stuff to once every couple of hours. He said he doesnt plan on doing it at all anymore.


P.S.S. I'm done with this topic as it has strayed from its original intent which was to find an optomistic way to capatolize on the situation (Pox's sugguestion). It has turned into an argument and certain people have found it nessisery to begin laying blame to make themselves sound more credible. I take my leave as this topic reaches its all-time low.

[crendalerst]

I've spoken with buffmomma on this topic many times, she has quite a similar view to me.

[Calain]

So is there no middle way between an empty /as and an totally spammed one?

As for RvR there i was able to hear all imoprtant things in the last weeks during my play-time.

And informations like 8 albs at grannys or so, are nothing that should be on /as either.

So , this leaves the question if an middle way can be found.

There is no black nor white in this matter and any extreme point of view is leading to nothing.

[crendalerst]

well said calain. My biggest problem is the toa scroll spam, but yeah trivial info for rvr should be in the cg not /as.. Too bad the toa people never take an initiative and make a cg like the people in emain do, then people could just ask for the emain cg, or ask for the toa cg and all would be well and good in /as.

[Buffmomma]

Well guys, sorry I haven't been on much as of late to watch the problems, life is finally slowing down after the big Christmas rush. One thought I had was to limit scroll spam to a certain time frame - say the first 5 minutes of every hour (most people I know use /clock and so from XX:00-XX:05 they could put up their WTB WTS WTT Scroll junk. This would also make it so that it was only put on /as once per hour. I remember when ToA first came out we had a TON of spam on /as just basic conversations about ToA and after the first day people were very good about starting a CG for discussing ToA stuffs. The problem with starting a ToA CG now for scroll farming is that what if you're in Emain killing and want to see real quick if your scroll is for sale that you so desperately want? Leave CG, join ToA Scroll CG, put up your WTB with a PST and leave ToA Scroll CG and re-join Emain CG? While this might work it would be rather annoying :-\ Maybe it's time to have an /as meeting to discuss the best route to take to curb the ToA scroll spam along with any other important issues any GM's want to bring up. Let me also take this post to remind you that while I am /as leader so to speak all GM's of guilds in this alliance are also /as leaders in some respect because I am not the one who makes the rules, ALL GM's make the rules and agree to the rules therefore not just me but all GM's also help enforce the rules. When I am on if I see a person spamming /as I send a tell to them asking them to take a different action, as should all GM's who see spamming. Our goal is to keep /as spam free and keep it so that people don't turn /as off. And just because I'm /as leader doesn't mean I'm the only one who asks people not to spam. It's all of our jobs' because I certainly can't be on 24/7 to do this job alone. I would also like to thank all of you who help police /as to keep it spam - free. Thanks all.

[Macs]

personally I feel that now that we have a forum dedicated to DAOC market place on this website, there is absolutely NO reason to mention WTB or WTS anything in /asend.


But that's just my narrow minded opinion :)

[reme]

I'm glad you took the time to add your piece buffmomma. As I had suspected before the problem is far from solved in your eyes and you understand that simply expecting people to stop spamming /as is impossible. I will encourage my GMs to take whatever ideas they can to the table when the meeting occurs so that we can avoid a loss of /as popularity. Probably the hardest part is that TOA was not greeted with open arms by all, so some people are immediately angered by anything over /as that involves scrolls. And you are right about the cg thing... perhapse we can encourage all scroll trading to take place in a certain area over /broad? I fear it would be too diffacult to convince people to do that, but you never know eh?

Oh, and please if you can, setup a concrete rule that involves GMs using as much discression and respect as possible when disciplining people. /send or a polite "the official word is _____ rule" over /as. I personally enjoy /as much more when people are kind and respectfull. If someone makes a mistake I will be sure to try to be respectfull and nice myself, as recently, the rudeness involving scroll spam is just as bad as people spamming.

[crendalerst]

/as was created to help coordinate large scale events, which may range from RvR to ToA. People who use it solely for their own benefit are just selfish in my opinion. I will post a /as analogy in another thread in a minute, which might help you to better understand the /as and what is appropriate and what is not appropriate on it.

And Rem if you want to be treated well when you're disciplined don't commit acts that require disciplining!! If you break the rules you deserve to get yelled at, and maybe it will help to discourage you from doing it again.

[Calain]

And Rem if you want to be treated well when you're disciplined don't commit acts that require disciplining!! If you break the rules you deserve to get yelled at, and maybe it will help to discourage you from doing it again.

No this isnt the army, if u think u have to yell at someone then take this to RL.
This is a game and nothing should allow disrespectfull behavior on either side.
And esp. not on a public channel.

And while some may be offended by the "spam" this thread clearly shows that the views on the matter are quite different.

As i said some middle way needs to be found and set as rule.
As it is atm there is either to much spam regarding TOA or wahtever and discussions about /as spam on the /as.

There will always be some spam on the /as , cause ppl want to talk across teh guild borders, and in a regulated manor this is what is defining the alliance.

Conclusion: with better rules we can clear /as from the pointless discussions and can reinstall the friendly comunity that the alliance should be.

If we cant agree in that , then maybe its time to split the alliance cause this whole bs is stealing the little bit of fun that i have when playing the game.

[Pirrus]

I agree pretty much with Calain on this one, some middle ground needs to be found. Some people hate TOA and everything that has to do with scrolls, while others think TOA is great and a big part of the game now. Either way, TOA is here now, you don't have to like it, you don't even have to go to it, but everyone needs to accept that it is now part of the game.

And while the scroll spam has gotten out of hand lately, people trying to regulate it have most of the time made it worse. Half the time when someone says anything about scroll spam, a huge arguement breaks out over. creating 10x the spam than there was already. Problems with /as are supposed to be handled in tells, otherwise the spam gets worse.

I think Buffmomma has a very good idea with her hourly scroll spam idea. At the start of every hour, you can post your WTB/WTT/WTS scroll info over /as, and then that is it, no more scroll spam for another hour. This would allow for people to still share scroll info for those concerned about it, and for those who don't care, its only once an hour you have to put up with it. If anyone spams scroll info outside this period, their GM or another GM should inform them politely, in a send, of the /as rule for scroll spam. I think this solution would definetly be some middle ground on the whole issue.

[Macs]

/ignore DAOC marketplace forum

[reme]

"And Rem if you want to be treated well when you're disciplined don't commit acts that require disciplining!! If you break the rules you deserve to get yelled at, and maybe it will help to discourage you from doing it again."

this is a prime example of both someone who doesn't think when they speak and someone who takes the game to seriously. First of all crend, if i didnt commit acts that required disciplining, when exactly would i get to take advantage of all this supposed "being treated well when you're disciplined".... lol dude.... just please stick to leading your guild and do your best to carry out buffmomma's exact wishes as we all do.


and btw altho i lean on the side of toa, my thoughts are always leaning towards a solution like calain and pirrus. I'm concerned the those people who DO take the game too seriously may limit the negotiations of such a solution however, but we can always hope for the best.

[Elvtin]

-blanks stare-
Spam is a waste of my money darn it!! :eh:

I have zee ultimate solution!!!
Elect me Governor and i shall reduce spam to a minimum if To nothing at all!!!
There will be a gold piece for all the poor!! :yes:
There will no longer be any poor n00b with-in the system! For i will setup education center's to teach and so other's may learn!! :stupid:
I shall even donate my body for zee wimmins in the alliance to do whatever they will.. :hump:
This is the way of the new uhm.. uhm.. errr... we'll call it the "Thing!!"
yes yes yes!! This is "The Way"
and you know this!! MAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!! :lmaa:

[Allison]

I don't think I want to see "WTB blah blah" scrolling by for 50 lines on my chat screen once every hour. Personally, I think that would be worse than the way things are now.

Speaking to that, I think most guilds joined this alliance because of its reputation for having a low-spam, low-BS /as. (I know that's why it was originally formed, anyway.) That's the foundation of this alliance, and every guild agreed to its policies when it joined. To change those policies now, I think, would be disasterous for the alliance.

There are other places to look for scrolls. The Market Explorer is only one of them. There is a forum here that can be used. And there are other sites as well. IMO, advertising the same item on /as hour after hour, day after day, is just selfish.

[Figtoria]

Okay.

Who hid Elv's medication?

:eh:

I'm looking at you Nananananannanannnanannnananana.

:eh:

[crendalerst]

having been the former leader of the alliance, and the one who most guilds asked to join. The primary reason for EVERY guild wanting to join the alliance was so they could have more rvr info and be more active in RvR. That is why the legion of Lions created the alliance, so we could have a nice clean alliance, that was active and had a good presence in RvR. It seems that since toa though many guilds have shifted their focus toward the expansion and it's "wonders".. I think the expansion is great and I'm glad that people enjoy it to the extent they do. But whether a person needs (insert scroll name here) or not, is NOT a concern of the realm. The /as should be focused on Large scale things which a single guild can not do alone, such as ML raids, dragon raids, legion raids, RvR(mainly relic raids and defenses here, as most good rvr info is in the cg anyway).

I think it also says something about the people that RvR frequently and their contribution to the realm, they always make sure there is a rvr oriented cg, this way people who want rvr info can get it, and those who don't want the info don't have to be in the CG. I think the ToA scroll stuff should be the same way, but clearly nobody has shown an initiative to do this, and the lazy folk just spam /as.

BTW Rem, look at how many posts you've made on this topic, are you sure it's me that takes the game too seriously and not you?

[spyder913]

The biggest spammer is gone now though... so it has improved a little

[IceFire]

Every guild leader should have a option to lock /as so it cant be talked in when it gets out of hand, i know its not a fix but it is currently implamented into the game (cg locking anyone?) so it wouldnt be that hard for them todo.

When I was in Legion of Lions, I kept /as turned off do to all the spamming morons, and if you asked them to stop in a private msg; they would either 1) ignore you 2) flame you in /as causing more of an issue.

[Calain]

Well said Ailia

but dont u think the alliances has changed a bit since then?
I dont know but i sure feel so.
Also if i remember corectly no guild beside RS wanted to step up after AB broke into pieces.

How can u expect the alliance to be exactly the same?
Atm we are uniting most of all Hib-Pellinor.
Its not just a couple of us anymore.

U might be correct with ur prediction ,... maybe not.

Afaik Carpe Diem already left due to an /as incident.
U may think about Voodoo and Ark what u want but they are good ppl.

I think that if a majority of ppl/guilds within the alliance think that we have to talk about the /as rules , i think we should do that.

That is how democracy usually works.

Or am i wrong and missed something?

[IceFire]

If its U.S.A Democracy then no, the leaders would only let us "think" we have control =)

[Calain]

If its U.S.A Democracy then no, the leaders would only let us "think" we have control =)

Well indeed, that could be the problem.

If so then tell me pls, cause iam outa here then.

[Allison]

Calain, I really can't speak to the current state of the alliance at all times, because I usually have to keep /as turned off. It may well be that most people would prefer to have a chatty /as now. I know that wasn't the case when this alliance was formed, but I guess things change. Although, I don't know why any guild would have joined this alliance if that's what they wanted.

Certainly, there needs to be some discussion of the matter. What I think is good and reasonable, others will think heavy-handed, and vice-versa. But, whatever is decided about current alliance rules, I have little hope that the bickering will ever stop. The current system is not enforced. If stricter rules are put into place, there isn't much chance of them being enforced, either. If more lenient rules are put into place, more people than ever will be turning off /as.

I hate to be negative, but that's how I feel. Unless the guilds in this alliance start keeping their members within the bounds of the current alliance rules, whatever they may be, then nothing will ever change.

[crendalerst]

^^
right on the money

[Calain]

Well i have to agree with the most of what u said Ailia.
I dont think i will be easy to find a middle way.
Nvtl as part of the MT leadership i need to remember that a guild is the ppl in it.
And while i can choose whom to have in a guild,... i also have to accept the feelings my guildmembers have about certaint things.

So if i respect my guildies i have to listen to them and be their conection to the alliance leadership.

Much talking here was about rule enforcing from the guild leaders.
Well if the ppl in a guild have different views on a matter then the guild leader what u think should happen?

Sure one could go on and start from the scratch but some ppl actually care for what has developed over the past 2 years.

Conclusion : I will do what is needed for my guild and some of the guildleaders here should ask their guildies how they feel about the matter, we would not have this discussion if the current /as policy isnt questioned within the ranks of the alliance guilds.

[reme]

I agree with everything allia said, and I respect the fact that she understands that not everyone sees it her way, and that it is acceptable and normal for people to have different views.

I also like that just about everyone here has added an accual sugguestion to the solution of this problem. Even crend finally decided to say a possible SOLUTION other than tightening the grip and cracking the whip. Because in the end, analogies and child-like instructions will not solve anything. new policies to match the new and changing game is what will work. My personal thought is to lobby for a second /as for bgs/trade/general chat depending on the alliance leader's prefference. Other people sugguest a cg for scroll trading, which may also work, and others are thinking about certain times when spam is acceptable on /as..... Normally i'd think this would backfire, but who knows.

[Macs]

I want to be next in line to receive a crack from Crends whip :O


/em assumes the position

[Pirrus]

When this alliance was formed there were 3 guilds, so you really cannot compare anything happening now to when the alliance started. You can't go from only having a small fraction of Hib in allaince to having more than half the realm in it without a significant increase in /as spam. And we GM's right here are the ones that voted every single other guild in, so if we are lookin to point fingers at people for /as spam, we better start by pointing them at ourselves.

Another good question is where are all these alliance rules we are refering to that we are acusing people of breaking. Did we write them down anywhere? Do new guilds joining the allaince get to see them and inform their members of them? I remember most of them, but that is most likely cause I have been in the alliance since it was just 3 guilds big. Maybe part of our problem is that people don't know the rules, and therefor don't know they are breaking them in the first place. I am not at all suggesting that the /as spam is soleing misinformed people, because a good amount of it is common sense, but I am willing to bet that it could account for some of it.

Another thing is how many GM's visit this site? Are they all members here and visit it regularly? I really don't think so, cause there are't that many different voices in this thread.

I definetly think we need to discuss this issue more, but maybe part of the whole problem is people aren't aware of what is expected of them, and we aren't telling them as well. An this goes for some GM's of guilds as well who might not be as well informed as they should be over these matters.

[crendalerst]

I think everyone should know by now that spam is inappropriate in /as. Rem you still don't understand the analogy that I posted, it was not posted as a set of rules, it was simply posted so that people could see /as from a different view point and understand better when to use it and when not to use it. You don't have to agree with it 100%, but it does explain game communication pretty well I feel. And your personal attacks are extremely uncalled for, I know that you're doing it because you can't actually find a flaw in what I've said, so you have to attack the person, but hey that's life I guess.

I'll reitterate, waiting for mythic to do something is useless, lobby all you want, it will still be months before anything is implemented, if people want this alliance to last something has to be done about the spam now.

[Pirrus]

Here is something I dug up from the private allaince forum. These are the rules we established over a year ago at the formation of this /as. I'll bump them in that forum too, and perhaps they could be made sticky as well?


1. No cussing, flaming, insulting anyone on the /as channel

2. Allowed ding announcements are lvl 50 dings and RR5+ dings

3. Do not spam /as w/advertising for crafting/selling/lfg and so on (spam being defined as anything repeated more than once every 20 mins) Saying it once, having ppl send you for details is fine.

4. GM's only will handle guild members who fail to follow alliance rules. If there is no GM available, find an officer.

5. Joking on /as is fine as long as it doesn't get out of hand. (not insulting, not crude, and not spammed--defined above)

---If you do not know who a gm or officer of a certain guild is, you can send the highest lvl person you see online for that guild..or check the herald listings for contact addresses and so on.

***The keeps are all being reset after each patch back to lvl 1. After each patch there will be an motd put up to help remind us to upgrade them again. If you know ppl from other alliances who have keeps claimed and can send them, that would be great too***


I think the most prevalent rule to this discussion is #3 directed towards WTB/WTS/LFG spam over /as. Here we clearly stated that all WTB/WTS/LFG was completely allowed, as long is it was not repeated more often than once every 20 min. So according to our own rules, you can do all the WTS/WTB scroll announcing over /as you want, but only once every 20 minutes.

Now, I don't totally agree that this rule should still stand as it is, we definetly need to modify it some, to incorporate the changes in the game over the last year, such as consignment merchants, and now TOA as well.

Here is another idea for a change. Pretty much stuff like WTS 99% Scale AF102 golves is no longer seen in /as because of consignment merchants, but it used to be very common and very allowed. Consignment merchants changed this, and now the only real /as spam you will see about crafting is people looking for a crafter, or a crafter saying they are looking for work, which i think can be very useful and should certainly still be allowed. Maybe for scrolls we could allow people to announce over /as that they just filled their consignment merchant with scrolls, and anyone interested can go check it out or send them a tell asking about the scrolls. This would also be a way to limit the scroll spam, but still allow people to use /as for one thing it is very much still ment to be used for, communication to a larger population in the game.

My main point here is, our current rules allow for the scroll spam. You may not like it and want to change it, but you cannot say scroll spam is not allowed until we as GMs come together to change this rule. Another thing I have seen in this thread so far is a whole lot of people argueing for their side and trying to prove they are right in as many different ways as possible. What I do not see a whole lot of are suggested possible solutions. We can continue to argue this point as long as we want until this thread reached 10 pages long, but this is the simple fact, our alliance rules currently allow for scroll spam. If we want to change this, we can, but it will call for a meeting of GM's to discuss and modify our current rules. Untill that is done, people can post all the scroll info on alliance all they want, as long as it does not occur more than once every twenty minutes. (my and buffmomma's idea of once an hour sounds pretty good in comparison now, does't it?) :cheese:

Therefor, I propose we have a GM meeting in the near future. How does something like 2pm EST this sunday sound for a GM meeting to discuss the spam rule? I am not aware of any raids planned for this time so far, and I think this time should be good for Coplann and Calian as well. Sound good?

[Swifty_Johnson]

One of the things we need to crack down on is the people who appearently think it's okay to mock crend now on as. I saw him post about his relic raids and 3-4 people made smart-ass comments about him spamming. That was unnessary.

Swifty

[PoxTheSmall]

The 2 things that folks turn off alliance for though, isn't the existance of WTB/WTS/WTT, it's the fact that it gets WAY out of hand. I don't mind if every player in the game decides to post a WTB every 20 minutes, but it's those people who macro their messages and spam them more than 1 time every 5 minutes that makes me turn off alliance.

The second thing is that when someone gets out of hand, there's usually a resulting flame war over it. This is also a reason I turn off /as.

Now, one solution that I've suggested and has shut up alliance several times, is that when folks are going buck-nutty for scrolls, I'll suggest they check housing first, then toascrolls.com and if they DON'T find it there, then using /as for it is fine, imho, but to not look up an artifact you want then spam for scrolls without researching it first.

If folks actually put some thought and a tiny amount of work into their efforts, everyone would be happy. I have 4 active artifacts, 3 of them level 10 and I've probably spammed alliance for scrolls a total of about 10 times since TOA's release (if not less than that). Most of my artifacts were dependant on some really rare scroll, and I was either able to find most in housing or farm them myself. I'm absolutely no different than any other player aside from the fact that I work about 12 hours a day...which limits my playtime, and in the time I do play, if there's a raid going on, or defense to set up or anything, I'd rather not have to deal with 22 lines of WTB on alliance to get there.

[crendalerst]

I've got 2 artifacts, both of which i had to purchase/trade scrolls for, but i haven't announced on /as for a scroll once.

Swifty most of the people that were telling me to stop spamming were just messing around, like morety :)

[PoxTheSmall]

Morety never messes around, he's an extremely serious individual! :)

[IceFire]

You think Crends whip is mean, you dont even wanan see Mo's , that thing makes me cry even thinking about it =)

[reme]

from the smile seems like tears of joy :P

[reme]

also, there was a trade cg started today, it seemed to work out, but still had /as spam as predicted, i guess just give it time.

[PoxTheSmall]

Actually, that's a hell of a good idea. To start a trade cg daily and have folks keep it open as they like. I mean, there're tons of folks who do nothing but farm scrolls, and I'd think that having a trade cg with folks looking to sell keeping it open, then folks can connect and buy crap as they like, or post about looking for stuff, would eliminate at least some of the /as spam.