Obama and the GOP

[]LoL[Harm]

Anyone watch this? It's some damn fine stuff.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/35147797#35147797

[Post]

Did you see the Daily Show's commentary on it? LOL-able. They pointed out how MSNBC must be watching it with their pants down and one hand busy, while Fox was the only one that didn't play the whole thing - and made negative commentary that contradicted what they cut short.

[Allison]

Yeah, that was some good stuff.

[Noleader]

Just goes to show how stupid Congress members really are. They let Obama set the tone and basically went down hill from there... Why not raise the issues that he campaigned on and so far has outright reversed or ignored?

[Post]

Because the main points he campaigned on goes against their ideology? I have plenty of disappointments with the Obama administration, but all of the others combined don't hold a candle to my primary one - no balls. The Republican Party (in general) has been running an obstructionist strategy since they lost the houses (two years before Obama stepped into office), and the Democrats have done NOTHING to call them out on it. They block stuff whether or not the agree with it, block things that they originally bring to the floor, and have their leaders flat-out say they're running an obstructionist strategy.

If Obama takes them to task on that, I will be much more satisfied.

[Noleader]

Really man... You are still blaming the Republicans?

The House can move anything they want to the floor to vote. The Speaker sets the agenda... The Senate, up until Brown won, was a 60 seat majority that can override any filibuster.

The reason nothing is getting done is a simple reason: Obama lied to you. The Democrats are as bad as the Republicans and they have sold us all down the river long before most knew what hit them. Once you can accept that both of the parties are bullshit and out to screw us you will be much more liberated and most likely will be a better citizen for it.

[Post]

I think the Democrats have no balls, just as I stated the issue with Obama. I think they both screw the US, just in different ways. The fact of the matter is, if either party acted more similar to the other in ways they got their agenda pushed (either the Republicans acted more like pussies or the Democrats just moved as one big dickish glob in everything they did), we'd have a more centrist government and that's the direction I want it to move.

[Noleader]

That is the mistake though... Everyone assumes that Republicans and Democrats are different. They might be on the small topics that keep the 'Right' and 'Left' fighting but when it comes down to the massive items they are in lockstep.

Wars... All good!
Civil Liberties... Who needs them!
Spending... Need more lenders and printing presses!
Rule of Law... Federal government can do what it wants!
Signing Statements... Bush was on to something with those!

So long as people let the two parties turn them on their fellow Americans over stupid shit we will never address the real issues this nation faces, of which we almost all have some kind of agreement on.

[Post]

I think the path of getting to a point where we're not a two-party system is best served pushing our government's workings towards a centrist view instead of hitting the reset button, which is the eventual path of the almost all or nothing support method you're advocating.

[Noleader]

What I am supporting is that you, and those that subscribe to DvR mindset, start looking outside your party of choice and vote for people based on policy and not because they are, in your eyes, the lesser of two evils. We will never get to a reasonable government, and will be doomed to the reset button if people don't stop thinking of politics the way you seem to.

[Post]

And I feel that moving are government more towards the center is one of two methods to get us looking outside of the two parties, because frankly, if it were viable to start now, we wouldn't be in this two-party mess in the first place.

The other method being revolution (the reset button).

[Noleader]

And I feel that moving are government more towards the center is one of two methods to get us looking outside of the two parties, because frankly, if it were viable to start now, we wouldn't be in this two-party mess in the first place.

The other method being revolution (the reset button).

How do you think we can get to the center when both parties are doing the exact same thing... On all the major issues of our time they are in lock step on. So long as people continue to assume they can make a third party by voting for the two in power they will never lose control.

[Post]

Because if the "minor" issues they bring up to win and lose elections with are centralist, then it takes the focus off of them, putting more focus on the major issues.

[Noleader]

No... All that does is keep them focused on the 'minor issues they bring up to win or lose elections'. It does not change the fact that they will continue to send us to War or piss on the Bill of Rights.

[Post]

Like when Clinton was in office? We had a much more centrist political atmosphere then, and that was one of the best independent party voter turnouts in decades. Having a centrist view of our government makes the people look for other solutions on how to solve our nation's problems.

Edit: like you said, a lot of voting anymore is the lesser of two evils. I was no fan of Kerry, but I'll fully admit I voted for him because I was flat-out fearful of what Bush was going to do. In 2000, I wasn't so fearful of Bush, because our government was more centrist (and frankly, couldn't fathom how far that could be pushed), so I voted independent.

People vote independent more often the less fear there is of the "other" party's, be it democrat or republican. Having a centrist point in our government lessens that fear.

[Noleader]

Under your example though you are basically betting on the major parties having centrist policies on the minor issues in order to get people to vote for someone not in the major party. That looks like a rigged game to me.

The thing is by spending so much time looking at it from the lesser of two evils you start to become apologetic to the party you supported last round. It starts to skew your prospective on a number of issues.

You and I are in agreement on a big issues of our time yet we tend to argue about the minor shit.

Wars - End them.
Civil Liberties. - Requires a reservsal of Bush policy and then some.
Spending - Must live within our means.
Rule of Law - No one is above the law.
Signing Statements - impeachable offense

Yet you and I also have a completely different view of how the democrats have done since taking the reigns of power. Do you really think it is the minor issues that makes us view their progress so far differently?

[Riddick]

Wasnt the centralist view durign the clinton era due to the fact that congress was mostly republican? So for the president to get anything done it had to be more towards the middle?

I am curious though, with that centrist mentality did you vote for McCain or Obama (if you dont mind me asking).

[Post]

"Yet you and I also have a completely different view of how the democrats have done since taking the reigns of power."

Hold on, what have we really agreed upon as far as their results? They haven't done squat (or at least pretty close to it). Don't we agree upon that? Our disagreement is the cause, not the result.

"Wasnt the centralist view durign the clinton era due to the fact that congress was mostly republican? So for the president to get anything done it had to be more towards the middle?"

Partially, yes. But look at where it moved when Republicans had almost-full control compared to the Democrats.

"I am curious though, with that centrist mentality did you vote for McCain or Obama (if you dont mind me asking)."

Obama. Noting that when I state "centrist," I mean the direction of the government and not so much the views of the individual President.

[Post]

Let me also state that I consider myself having a "higher" breaking point than the average American when it comes to voting with truly the best candidate instead of the lesser of evils. I'd say most who vote have never voted outside of their party in their entire lives. So to put it bluntly, I don't see the point of view for America to change in the way you want it to, because I see it as human nature you're fighting.

Hence why I state the only realistic alternative to my hypothesis is revolution.

[Buki]

I agree with the bit about revolution. I think people need to change the way they think about our political system and there impact on it before any genuine change and or improvment can be made.
Post you keep throwin back to clinton era as an example of a good centeralist ideal, the first thing that came to my mind was that compared to today there was really no major issues during that time. The reason I feel this is such a large factor is that when shits going bad seems to be human nature to look outward and upward, at least in citizen vs. goverment. And ofcourse politicians feed on this, ravage more like it. We only see so much right vs. left hate because we create it.
A revolution of ideals and the ability to look past the bullshit.

[MickeyFinn]

I'm really not sure you'd find many people who agree with you that Clinton didn't face major issues during his 8 years. The only reason it seemed like it is because he knew how to handle a problem better than Bush Jr. did, which prevented any true shit storms.

[Post]

Any side issues can worsen people's blindness to real ones, but the fact remains that having centrist ideologies currently within government will make focus fall on other things.