I heard the NDA ban was lifted

[Renmazuo]

Can I get some reviews? Is it good? Or is it a fancy WoW

[Elvtin]

It hasn't been lifted yet. :)

[bleedboy]

It has...i logged on with my laptop for a few minutes so i couldnt tell how good the graphics really are. It was laggy on my laptop too, but that is to be expected.

I made a DoK(disciple of Khane). Seemed ok, nothing blew my socks off. I will say this though, after AoC combat, it will take some getting used to the slower style of hack'n slash. I will give it some love when i get home from work and through the night.

[otwist]

I am very disappointed in the graphics, they are not bad, but they are a far cry from what you would expect of the latest MMO on the market.
Not on par with LOTRO if you ask me.

[Eseave]

I am very disappointed in the graphics, they are not bad, but they are a far cry from what you would expect of the latest MMO on the market.
Not on par with LOTRO if you ask me.


I would have to agree, I was shocked, guess what happens when you expect it to be the best in the market. Though graphics not everything, it's nice to have something pretty to look at when playing.

[otwist]

Heh NDA goes down Tuesday, but whatever.

Im on the test servers at the moment, and can you say memory leak ?
I am crashing every hour or so with out of memory issues on both system and graphic memory. I have 2gb desktop and 256 GPU, sure, not a whole lot of GPU but should be more than enough for these polygons.

[Golmacmourna]

What gets me about it is that, in an MMO, you should feel excited about your first steps and what you get to do. But in this one, I was like 'ok... this place is a mess.... where am I? and as I wandered toward the quest area to attack my first mob, I realized I was doing like no damage, and I was about to die...

WTF, quoth I; surely, it is fain no pride with which I speaketh, that, 'pon entering yon world, I shouldst be capable of at the least, some feats of bellacosity.

that's when I realized that all my skills needed an equipped weapon, and that they don't put that *WEAPON* in your fucking *HAND* when you log in the first time. So I'm dying, and I go to inventory to try to figure out how to equip something. The paper doll and the inventory are separate, and I figure 'oh right click, right?' but that didn't work. Long story short, I had to run away from my first mob in the game in order to recuperate and figure out how to equip my goddamned weapon.

And, it takes too long. Early on, you should get thruogh the badguys fairly quick, but even the first things you have to kill take what feels like a long time, while I hammer on the same key over and over to simulate auto-attack.

Public quests were an interesting idea, but in practice, you show up at the spot, and if there isn't alot of traffic, you end up trying to do the stupid thing alone, and getting nowhere fast. If you have a couple people show up and make it to step 3, inevitably, the last stage of the quest spawns a boss that will kill you, thereby wasting all the effort you put in, and souring you on trying again. It's not a predictable curve, because the first part is soloable, the 2nd part is usually duoable, and the 3rd part often needs 4-5 coordinated people to get involved. Depending on the PQ--because it's a little random.

Also, the classes don't really have a 'gimmick' to get you in the swing of things and make you like what you're doing. In WoW, the hunter's pet is useful early, and subsequently. The rogue's stealth is another early ability that you get into using. Mage slows and immobs etc etc. Even in Conan, the 4 types of classes had distinct approaches. In WHO, *every* class has a 'pound on this one to win' button and a 'pull with this one' weapon, and you just hammer it out. There are various buffs/debuffs/whatevers that you get with different attacks, but they don't make a big difference in how the game feels to play--it's just a matter of like 'oh ok, now I have these two attacks that debuff and increase damage--so I have to use them to keep being efficient'. As a squig herder, your squig doesn't tank for you--you tank for yourself with a melee skill that makes you survivable. You can also use your bow at point blank range--something I don't mind in principle, but really, it's just a melee attack at that point, and the squig is just a dot.

Their version of the talent trees are confusing as fuck, despite being a total ripoff of WoW. It is hard to see what's coming because they don't design the tree to make sense to someone using it. For example, if I see that my main attack is ice magic, and there's a talent that makes that better, I can be like 'oh ok, I see how this works'. But if you see something that says you've always got a chance to proc resistence or something like that, you have to wonder... will I ever have enough resistence to care? do I need resistence? What have I resisted today? I don't remember resisting anything...

they act like level difference wouldn't be the end-all-be-all of play, but it is unforgiving. I kited the crap out of a +1 healer/warrior guy on my squig herder, and eventually he caught me and killed me. I had been wandering all over blue hell dotting him and letting my squig eat him, but I'd done like 1/3 damage by the time he got close enough to eat me. Considering that he had no way to stop me from kiting him, it seems like the ranged class that can fire on the run should be the WINNAR? What made the diff was the level. So this idea of pvping throughout your career is broken. You gain xp in pvp in this game, so there's no real good way to twink to the top of a bracket and stay there forever.

The animations aren't very good. There's weird philosophical crap about no dancing that makes you wonder what the hell game world they think they're building. I mean... WH is as wacky as it gets. And it's not like dancing has to be silly anyway. But to dig in your heels about it--as if it were important, I think, is just a sign of being stubborn that will translate into other areas.

And above all, I'm disappointed about how limited the whole thing is. It's similar to wow, without the polish--in a game setting that is basically alot more interesting and deep than wow--just by virtue of being around longer--and could have brought in all the aspects of that depth in a better way. WH is based on historical cultures and warfare, mixed in with more modern conflicts like WWII. But there's no medieval CoD like experience where you're with a pack of goblins, moving building-to-building trying to take a village. Instead, it's wandering around in bowl shaped areas, or near hills, wandering in close enough to try a few shots at the guards, or the zerg of the badguys, and then wandering away before you die. It's that same kind of 'red rover' thing from DAOC that made pvp there an awkward first step on the road to interesting competitive play in an mmo. I know there are a bunch of DAOC fans here, and nostalgia will be a factor--but like it or hate it (like I did), you know it was pretty good *for the time*, and by now we've seen more interesting multiplayer pseudo RPG experiences. They haven't tweaked sight range and movement speed properly to make that more interesting scenario play out. It's still this benny hill show type combat where people are chasing back and forth instead of doing things that look like actual WAR (grah! etc).

Not that I have a boner for simulating real war, but I'm not a fan of benny hill either.

Basically shitty execution + no ambition + disingenous advertising from paul + bad qualities from DAOC and WoW = don't play for any reason. Even as a trial.

[MickeyFinn]

They made the same mistake everybody but SWG and EVE did. Items need to be player made. That point alone will send this right along with AoC. Very cool at first, and right down the shitter.

Unfortunately, that's the only idea SWG and EVE seem to have right :|

[Noleader]

I think most companies think they need to keep people interested by fetching armor from encounters. I really only like DAoC in BG mode because you can make all the items you need and be on a level playing field.

Kinda sad that more companies are moving to the WoW mindset.

[Elvtin]

it's because WoW was/is such a success they want to copy it and win big too.. the losers.

[Golmacmourna]

well, plus, there's no gambling addiction in item creation. Or less of one.

The majority of mankind is susceptible to addiction--particularly behavioral addiction. Most of the time we consider things we do habits or other innocuous terms. But a game that works on random rewards--from monsters, when you hit, when yuo miss, when you crit, when you group together to fight something major, when you get varying amounts of gold--hook into the addictive personality of humanity.

[bleedboy]

i am not too worried about the graphics, i think they will update them rather quickly. I think they also wanted to keep them a little less for larger scale rvr. I didnt crash once throughout the weeekend. Personally i think and hope EA/Mythic will take WAR in a decent direction.

This does remind me of DAoC at the beginning, the looks anyways.

[MickeyFinn]

Golm, I think what hooked people on daoc's pvp was that you can progressively grow stronger. The idea of advancement and "Being better" than the rest spurred people into ravenous cycles of both pve and pvp. I believe a properly created player economy can help this idea, not hurt it.

[Figtoria]

I watched the boy play it awhile this weekend.

Yawn.

Plus, in the public encounters, it's possible to be the "best" in your group and still not get any loot.

wtf

The UI is SO WoW, someone should sue someone.

All in all - so far - nothing that would induce me to throw away the 3 (4?) years I've been playing WoW...

Mmmmmm - Monday night - raid night - WOWFTW!

[faeldan]

well i been a fan of warhammer since i was 18yrs old.. i am 32 now.. i played wow and i got bored with it in the 3+ yrs it has been out. I was there in closed beta and on Sargeras the opening day hhehe. I dont like the loot system in WoW . The way the loot works there is based on greed really over who can best use the upgrade.

[bleedboy]

I like the way the PQ system worked. You dont have to be the best to actually have a chance to win. As a healing specced healer, that made things kind of fair.

[Noleader]

I thought the PQ system is one of the best ideas being added.

[Eseave]

I liked the PQ also, As stated above nice that don't have to be best to actually get something.

[lijien]

i thought the pq was nice . i liked the group functionso fo public or private groups.. made things easy in the frontier to fight... also the idea of upping stats to 2 lvls below cap and also scaling abilities.. and i can deal with the grpahics just being ok if i can keep the performance i had in the 45 v 40 battle i had at a keep last night

[Golmacmourna]

Golm, I think what hooked people on daoc's pvp was that you can progressively grow stronger. The idea of advancement and "Being better" than the rest spurred people into ravenous cycles of both pve and pvp. I believe a properly created player economy can help this idea, not hurt it.

well, my real opinion is that DAOC pvp sucked, and only the extremely long grind of rvr ranks made people play it. I would personally much rather fight in a good game with little or no advancement. Or repeated advancement in each round (like Savage or Enemy Territory). Or ideally, UT, where an upgrade is just a vehicle or pickup away--and what I care about it the objectives not personal growth.

[Solomente]

So Golm, what you're saying is you'd like to wait in line with me at midnight on launch day to get this game?

[Golmacmourna]

Totally! Let's dress as witch elves.

[bleedboy]

well, my real opinion is that DAOC pvp sucked, and only the extremely long grind of rvr ranks made people play it. I would personally much rather fight in a good game with little or no advancement. Or repeated advancement in each round (like Savage or Enemy Territory). Or ideally, UT, where an upgrade is just a vehicle or pickup away--and what I care about it the objectives not personal growth.

I think you are the first person i have ever heard say that DAoC RVR sucked.

[Muadi]

Golm... sounds like your much more intune with games like UT, Quake, Halo, TF2, etc...log in, work as a team, kick some ass, and log.

I like those games, but I mostly play for the community aspect vs. just the gaming aspect. So, the mmo's we have been playing are fine for me. Ya, they lack in some areas, but are pretty cool in others.

[Slicks]

I think you are the first person i have ever heard say that DAoC RVR sucked.


I will be number 2 cause i hated it......totally sucked

and i will follow that up with i hate mythic and wont buy there games anymore:fuct:

[Kegg OBeer]

I had the exact opposite experience on the squig herder. I had my squig tanking 2-3 mobs at a time with no problem. I rarely used my spear as well. It was more of a "get this thing off me so I can shoot it" tool than anything else.

As for the level differences being a factor. What level were you while you were doing this? As much as they try to even things out, someone with a level on you 'should' beat you one on one. Especially if he's level 6 and you're level 5. If he was 50 and you were 49, it'd be a much fairer fight I would think.
You may also need to factor in what class you were attacking. I'm betting you'll have more difficulties against certain classes no matter what class you're playing. That's a basic aspect of RvR.

Also, it's kind of unfair to bash the graphics on a game that hasn't actually been launched yet, don't you think?

I'm not sure what you were expecting from WAR, but if you hated DAOC that much, I doubt you'll ever give WAR a fair chance. Maybe going to get a spa treatment and cleansing yourself would help you? Then you could give this a shot with a clear mind... ;)

[Golmacmourna]

Golm... sounds like your much more intune with games like UT, Quake, Halo, TF2, etc...log in, work as a team, kick some ass, and log.

I like those games, but I mostly play for the community aspect vs. just the gaming aspect. So, the mmo's we have been playing are fine for me. Ya, they lack in some areas, but are pretty cool in others.

I know it sounds like that, but I'm actually way more susceptible to community than you think. I am playing WoW right now. A game I've repeatedly quit in disgust. I played AoC, even knowing ahead of time that the combat wouldn't be what I wanted (though it was a nice change). I don't have to play UT all the time. What I *do* want is--since I'm sucked in by the community and the big world--a *GAME* that's not just crap. Something where being clever or being cunning or being lucky matters. That it's not just gear and random numbers. I know the inevitable result in these games so early in the fight that it's really upsetting.

I played one game that was close to awesome. Planetside. Until they turned it into mush with balance changes that made playing alot of the roles in the game frustrating, it was by far and away the best approach. Does it have to be an FPS? It could be an action adventure or beat em up. I could even play something like Dark Alliance (sort of like gauntlet). I could play an RTS where I manage my 'squad'. But I want a *game*. MMOs continue to pursue this one-person RTS thing and it's ridiculous. It's like playing yahtzee.

actually taht's it. To make it clear. We are talking about playing yahtzee. There is no strategy in yahztee worth talking about. It is just the dice, and you recording the rarest combo as soon as possible to win. Or 'Sorry', where it's rolling dice and moving your piece. Now, yeah. I can get together with my girlfriends from the bingo hall and we can talk about how the Smith's grandson is getting married between rolling dice--and sip at our virgin daquiris, and try Majory's pasta salad (which, honestly, is a little vinegary for my taste--I like her coleslaw better). But wouldn't it be about a billion times more awesome if we played Bridge? A game requriing actual effort and strategy--not super complicated, but lightyears beyond yahtzee.

[Post]

"I know the inevitable result in these games so early in the fight that it's really upsetting."

Well, maybe on the small scale of your life before you rez and do it again, but not on something like taking a city or defending a fort. I think that's actually the issue here - games like Planetside and even WoW to degree force you to put more focus into the fight directly in front of you. The person you're either killing, defending or running away from.

Warhammer, on the other hand, isn't as much about that as other games. It's more about the entire battle as a whole. It's the nature of it being a true MASSIVE multiplayer game, and I think you're wrong in trying to frame it as an inferior method. It's just a different method from what you want.

You mention Planetside, which I think the key issue there is beyond a few engagements, every objective taking was about who could zerg the fastest, much more so than DAoC or Warhammer. Sure each individual kill was less about the zerg than those, but the overall objective was a numbers trumped everything scenario. On the other hand, a full group can defend some objectives in Warhammer FOREVER from as many people as you can throw at it if played correctly (Festenplatz comes to mind).

That's why it sounds like your key issue is not the product's qualities, it's just that its goals sound different (not inferior) from what you want.

[Golmacmourna]

it sounds like you didn't play planetside and have no idea what it was about.

[Post]

I had three characters and played it through its first expansion...

http://myplanetside.station.sony.com/character.jsp?charId=294904&worldId=15

But if you've already made up your mind and this is going to be another lecture about my ability / intelligence / whatever not being up to the required level, let's just cut this short right now.

[Golmacmourna]

I'm not going to lecture you on anything, but your description would be my description of any MMO with pvp, whereas your description of a group of people knowing what they're doing being able to repel a multitude would be my description of a game like planetside. To my mind, that means that I am being unfair to the rpg (which I knew already, since I hatesss it gollum), and you're being unfair to planetside--except that I disliked planetside too and stopped playing it. In any case, I know for a fact that what I like least about RPGs is that there is a narrow margin for competition. Assuming you *have* the gear, you may be able to kill many enemies without being touched, and if you don't have the gear, you may be able to get in a couple lucky shots. Even in the cases where everyone has standardized gear--the relationship between classes in combat is very much cut and dried. You will not be sniped by a squig herder while foolishly running in the open. By the same token, if the squig herder somehow was given an ability which allowed for that kind of thing, it would always work, except in (perhaps) 1/10th of times, when the random number generator came up bad for him. Aiming is a big part of my caring, and, while, yes, coordinated pvp is an improvement, it is still a game of patty cake compared to the possibilities in video games.

I'm not saying you're stupid (yet, anyway), I get sucked into these games too. And I do enjoy pvp, and I see the attraction. But pvp isn't this special thing that has to be an RPG. In fact, in normal games, you don't have to say the word 'pvp'--because all games were supposed to be competitive, originally. You couldn't play a game without another person. Anything that you played 'by yourself' was a puzzle or just a play. Solitaire doesn't take skill and shrewd ability--it's just a wank and a sorting task, and people are vulnerable to doing mindless activities like it. We're also vulnerable to doing things as a group. But there is an undeniable value in doing something interesting as a group, as opposed to something mindless. I don't think TF2 is the end all and be all--it's a game, and it's interesting, but it doesn't suit me, personally. I wish I had more options in MMOs to say 'this isn't *my* kind of game, but yes, it is a game', as opposed to saying 'this is definitely not a game, or at the very least, barely a game'. It's more like well. Role playing. You get to feel like you're the dwarf fighter and that you accomplished something, when really, it was just that the odds weren't stacked against you.

Look, you don't have to always do something useful for fun. But look at video games. There are dozens and dozens of amazing games. Strategy. Shooters. Arcade whatever. Brawlers. It's just a huge panoply of things you could do. But what MMOs have done is take the RPG model--which is the model you use when you don't have an idea for a game, you just want to tell a story--but it's obvious that you cannot tell a very good story in an MMO because you have thousands of readers who can see each other--and nobody can be personally center stage. So the quests and stories and so forth are all tentative, mostly delivered through snippets of text and labels on generic objects that drop from enemies that, as the game progresses, you think of in more and more generic terms (this is a thing with a range and damage capability X Y Z special abilities that happen here and there) whether it's another player or an npc--it's a very abstract expereince, and not the best story telling framework. We could watch football together and enjoy that--that's completely passive, so MMOs are good for that reason, and I certainly Enjoy Rock Band, which, if you play guitar, is nothing but monkey at a cash register hitting buttons when they light up. But because it brings music and an appreciation of music to friends, it's a good thing.

So yeah. But here's the thing. WHO isn't different than WoW. It doesn't have the richness of content, and it isn't a better *game*--assuming it's a game at all. While the idea of RvR and takin ga keep can be exciting, it's fundamentally an experience you can have in WoW. If it's important enough to you, then go for it, by all means. But for me, my friends are doing WoW right now, and WHO is clunky in comparison--that means that the thing *I* come here for (other people) is not going to be in WHO.

I keep bringing up the 'real game' thing because that's what I'm in search of. My hierarchy of MMO needs goes like this:

1) Real game to play
2) Friends or some kind of social scene that I enjoy
3) A game that is balanced so that it's not frustrating and clearly going down the shitter
4) A setting I like, preferably Sci Fi
5) Stop giving blizzard all my money

so when I review something, that's my approach. Of course damn near anything is fun if you've got the friends to play it with.

[mugs]

is that Hep or someone related to him?!

[Post]

Post = Hep

And to Golmac:

Firstly, I'm glad to see that the read of talking "down" to me is my interpretation and not the intention.

Secondly, I would like to hear some basic ideas you have for an MMO (seriously). Frankly, I don't know if MMOs in general can do what you want them to do. MMOs by their nature have to force stagnation, which sounds like your key issue.

- Other types have a different type of progression. TF2, Rock Band, whatever, all either allow skill-based progression or allow you to pretty much instantly enjoy end game content. I don't think either will work in an MMO environment, but maybe so. Planetside did a little in that progression had more to do with variety of strategy and not so much content you were playing, but it's not as if you were at a disadvantage simply trying to compete against people playing for months. It eventually suffered the same issue that TF2 does if you were to try and attach your character for months: same thing over and over again.

- Nobody being center stage is what really caught my eye about your last post. That's a nature of any game. The more players you add playing, the less you can be center stage. If it's single player, you can be God ala Sim City. If it has a few players, you can still be a really key person ala Rock Band. If it has 10 or so, then you can still have good impact, but TF2 is no more fun when one person can dominate another team of five (or be the clear cut better person out of nine). When you get to MMO's level... I don't know how to avoid that. That's a nature of MMO's in general.

For me, the whole "center stage" thing is a key reason why I liked DAoC and I like Warhammer. Yes, I know I cannot be center stage, but they both fool me into feeling like I make a difference in the end. Me being part of a group that held off enemies attacking a fort long enough for reinforcements that stopped the relic raid Made me feel like *I* made the difference between the tide of the entire server going one way or the other, it being true or not.

And of course, playing with friends trumps everything. I'd rather play bomberman on XBox Arcade with friends than play the best game in the world alone for any decent period of time.

[Golmacmourna]

well, my idea is basically either to see something like dungeon siege, where the simple controls are there so I can control 3-5 characters like a squad tactical thing, or a game like devil may cry/ninja gaiden where I can jump and dodge and do interesting things... well maybe not ninja gaiden, but 99 nights. Or, an FPS.

I talked with spyder for a while once about what 'my mmo' would be. Tactical squad based RTS with 3 career paths that would govern how you get loot, how 'important' your character were (whether you replaced them regularly or kept them), and how you get missions (which would be quests). I would consist of instancing with random matching for quests, where you go to anonymous planet A or anonymous orbital structure B, and, sometimes, you would see someone else's squad who had a similar objective, or maybe even a competitive one--or even someone from a different career path with a completely unrelated objective. PvE/P would be governed by an individual's check box. Basically say 'pair me with people who are trying to kill me, or don't', and you'd all be together in a giant pool for questing scenarios. Your squad members would have the appearance of emotions and personality which would translate into stats which governed how well they cooperate with each other--so that you'd be encouraged to discover which of them worked well together and which didn't, and morale would have a place, so that grouping them well in battle, they'd be less likely to freak out and suffer penalties for when the aliens were in the ventilation ducts, or someone was using some nerve gas or whatever.

The controls would be about a squad bar that'd be like a hotbar that could figure out who was the closest equipped person that can use the special ability there--it'd be stuff like engineering--seal a door or whatever, or administer first aid.

And finally, the career path woudl also define a role for you in the space-portion of the game aboard ships. There'd be 3 roles. One would be a small, nimble asteroids like shooter controls, one would be a customizable mid-range ship that would be like eve, in the sense that your systems would be targeted and then launched more like a familiar MMO, and finally a large-scale ship that would be controlled like an RTS--slow, lumbering, but full of auto-targeting systems. The 3 would freely interact in space, but the ship of the line would have missions and duties to distract it, whereas the smaller ships could more often slip by and ignore battles if they like.

[Kephlin]

well, my idea is basically either to see something like dungeon siege, where the simple controls are there so I can control 3-5 characters like a squad tactical thing, or a game like devil may cry/ninja gaiden where I can jump and dodge and do interesting things... well maybe not ninja gaiden, but 99 nights. Or, an FPS.

I talked with spyder for a while once about what 'my mmo' would be. Tactical squad based RTS with 3 career paths that would govern how you get loot, how 'important' your character were (whether you replaced them regularly or kept them), and how you get missions (which would be quests). I would consist of instancing with random matching for quests, where you go to anonymous planet A or anonymous orbital structure B, and, sometimes, you would see someone else's squad who had a similar objective, or maybe even a competitive one--or even someone from a different career path with a completely unrelated objective. PvE/P would be governed by an individual's check box. Basically say 'pair me with people who are trying to kill me, or don't', and you'd all be together in a giant pool for questing scenarios. Your squad members would have the appearance of emotions and personality which would translate into stats which governed how well they cooperate with each other--so that you'd be encouraged to discover which of them worked well together and which didn't, and morale would have a place, so that grouping them well in battle, they'd be less likely to freak out and suffer penalties for when the aliens were in the ventilation ducts, or someone was using some nerve gas or whatever.

The controls would be about a squad bar that'd be like a hotbar that could figure out who was the closest equipped person that can use the special ability there--it'd be stuff like engineering--seal a door or whatever, or administer first aid.

And finally, the career path woudl also define a role for you in the space-portion of the game aboard ships. There'd be 3 roles. One would be a small, nimble asteroids like shooter controls, one would be a customizable mid-range ship that would be like eve, in the sense that your systems would be targeted and then launched more like a familiar MMO, and finally a large-scale ship that would be controlled like an RTS--slow, lumbering, but full of auto-targeting systems. The 3 would freely interact in space, but the ship of the line would have missions and duties to distract it, whereas the smaller ships could more often slip by and ignore battles if they like.


Heh, graphics are way outdated and crappy now -- but you remind me of an old MMO I beta tested called 'Red Moon'. I think that was it... it had an RPG system kind of like diablo/dungeon siege, and between areas a large RTS MMO style combat system to travel between and fight for control of certain zones. Thats where it ended though. Group/squad tactics, instanced battles... etc... I don't even think those concepts had become popular yet. heh

-Keph

PS- I love WAR, really enjoyed Preview weekend. Left them tons of feedback. Oh, and ya the game is broken in ways, but thats why its still beta. :P Why I left feedback. They already had fixed two things I left feedback for by the end of the weekend.

:D

[Cavan]

Also, it's kind of unfair to bash the graphics on a game that hasn't actually been launched yet, don't you think?

I'm in the game industry... and graphics don't change after Alpha... hell... with an MMO... graphics probably won't change 2 years before launch...

Don't think there will be some magically art overhaul upon launch... what you see now is what you'll get after launch...

[Post]

As far as textures go, you won't see much. They're revamping the animations, though.

[Morety]

I like how Golm said "I'm not going to lecture you..." then took up half this page with a post ;)

[faeldan]

I LOL'd IRL!!!

[bleedboy]

I will be number 2 cause i hated it......totally sucked

and i will follow that up with i hate mythic and wont buy there games anymore:fuct:

OK, now i have heard 2 :) I have only ever heard people loving RVR, as i am one of them.

[]LoL[Harm]

I didn't care much for it either. But my experience was mainly BG's as I was never up on the leveling curve (everyone was level 50 while I was trudging through my 30's). I did do a few keep defense dealios when I was in my early 40's but the level difference made it so I was practically useless.

And hence my extreme hatred for all games that require active leveling...all bow down before EvE.

[Kegg OBeer]

I'm in the game industry... and graphics don't change after Alpha... hell... with an MMO... graphics probably won't change 2 years before launch...

Don't think there will be some magically art overhaul upon launch... what you see now is what you'll get after launch...

Not the actual graphics themselves, but environmental things do. Of course they're not going to revamp the engine itself, but as I saw no actual problems on that level, I assumed the bashing was referring to incomplete environmental fluff, animations, stuff like that.

As for the actual engine, I don't see what can make the graphics themselves worse than any other MMO out there. Especially WoW. It was nice to not be a cartoon character for once.

What exactly are people expecting them to look like? Photo quality? I think we've reached somewhat of a plateau in that area. The real improvement areas are in environmental detail and things of that nature. Unless there's been some breakthrough that I haven't heard of, they're still forced to use polygons in some capacity. Until some new technology surfaces, the quality on that level isn't going to be able to improve by such leaps and bounds as some seem to have expected.

[Sporto]

Golm have you looked in to Hurley at all? Not sure when it's coming out, but looked like a pretty cool sci-fi cross between an MMO and an FPS. I actually beta tested Tabula Rasa a little (I got invited as an apology for closing Auto Assault, which I loved in all it's buggy goodness) and it was ok, but also taught me that a beta-tester I am not.

[Riddick]

I always want to argue with Golm but never have enough patience to read through his posts. :bang:

[Golmacmourna]

On the subject of 'it's beta'. The game is gold, so there's no improving anything that'll happen before launch, really. Maybe (maybe) bug fixes. but not basic game stuff.

Golm have you looked in to Hurley at all? Not sure when it's coming out, but looked like a pretty cool sci-fi cross between an MMO and an FPS. I actually beta tested Tabula Rasa a little (I got invited as an apology for closing Auto Assault, which I loved in all it's buggy goodness) and it was ok, but also taught me that a beta-tester I am not.

Seen it, and I'm curious, but korean MMOs usually don't grab me. I couldn't get into lineage for instance. I'm super curious about Global Ops, and the other spy MMO thing that's coming out soonish that I forget the name of.

I didn't want to lecture, I figured the part after 'I'm not trying to be a dick' was totally skippable, since it's about the rich inner life of the mournas, on the discovery channel and coming to blueray.

And I <3 riddick. My chosen form of showing that affection is with text.

[faeldan]

wasnt global ops a fps that came out for private servers a few yrs back

[Coplann]

Get the game, try it out for 1 month. like it subscribe; dont like it put it away and go buy something else. if the 50 bucks are sooo valuable to you that you cannot afford it you shouldnt be playing MMOGames anyway. :p

AoC: nice combat, awesome graphics, sucky PvP
WAR: standard combat, mediocre graphics, good PvP

however I like how WARs combat is slower than DAoC, there is no mass crowd control and there are no "pure" classes. everyone is a hybrid in its own right, even the healer classes.

on the Games Convention in Leipzig I was playing 3 group vs 3 group scenario with other people as a DoK. Beside healing, decursing, rezing I was #2 of damage dealt. I was sooooooooo ripping apart people. I was playing on a machine which had huge second monitor attached to it so the audience could watch me play. So they saw me doing a bloody dance among the order guys all the time chanting "For Khaine, Khaine, Khaine, all your blood for Khaine!" was awesome :D
(edit: and I didnt die once the whole scenario)

[Golmacmourna]

wasnt global ops a fps that came out for private servers a few yrs back

no, definitely not

[faeldan]

http://pc.ign.com/objects/015/015729.html

this is the one i was thinking of back in 2002.

[Kegg OBeer]

there is no mass crowd control and there are no "pure" classes. everyone is a hybrid in its own right, even the healer classes.

This is the best description of the game's uniqueness I've heard so far. Well put.

I do remember seeing something about some form of crowd control, but it's not an AoE type of effect if I remember right. I can't honestly remember what class(es) it was that had it.

Personally, I think AoE crowd control ruins RvR because it makes RvR parties too class dependent. The collision detection helps with that as well. You can actually form a wall of tanks to protect your second ranks. (Theoretically...)

[lijien]

well defending a tower we had 4 black orc block the door against 10 order while 2 shaman and my DOk healed..

[Coplann]

This is the best description of the game's uniqueness I've heard so far. Well put.

I do remember seeing something about some form of crowd control, but it's not an AoE type of effect if I remember right. I can't honestly remember what class(es) it was that had it.

Personally, I think AoE crowd control ruins RvR because it makes RvR parties too class dependent. The collision detection helps with that as well. You can actually form a wall of tanks to protect your second ranks. (Theoretically...)


well, the Chaos Chosen has a pbaoe root (quiet small radius and only like 4 or 5 seconds duration from what I have seen). Iam sure other classes have something similar, from my beta / GC PvP experience however I cannot even think of a single fight where I was CCed at all.

[Kegg OBeer]

I don't really consider 4-5 second roots and things of that nature crowd control, nor do they ruin RvR at all... They simply make it interesting.

What ruins it is the whole 'first one to get off the 30 second insta mez wins the battle' stuff. As much as I loved RvR in DAOC, I really could have done without that. RvR was so much more fun when it was all chaos and fighting.

The need for CC was simply to keep your casters alive in battle since there was no collision detection. Anyone could run right through the tanks and hack them to pieces.

If the tanks want to beat on each other and stun or root each other briefly, that just makes melee classes more interesting.

[Kegg OBeer]

It's also worth noting the level cap of only 40. I think that's great!

Basically the explanation I saw was that they don't want to force everyone to spend months in PvE to be able to enjoy endgame content. Genius move IMO.

[Renmazuo]

How's the Marauder class doing? I like to hit things hard until I die.

[Kegg OBeer]

I thought the point of hitting things hard was for 'them' to die? ;)

A lot of people loved the marauder class, but I couldn't get into it. Just not my thing I think. I prefer the ranged damage dealers.
I've heard good things about all the tank classes actually. They all have their own unique abilities. The marauder's abilities are a bit more extreme than the others though with the morphing arms and such.

[IceFire]

I think most companies think they need to keep people interested by fetching armor from encounters. I really only like DAoC in BG mode because you can make all the items you need and be on a level playing field.

Kinda sad that more companies are moving to the WoW mindset.

I agree Matt, I always said, they needed a DAoC Server with only the SI expansion, I will always remember the nights we farmed the hell out of Formo (sp?) pling toons with my chanter and your druid bot =) Those were the days and I miss them =(

[Sporto]

I thought the point of hitting things hard was for 'them' to die? ;)

A lot of people loved the marauder class, but I couldn't get into it. Just not my thing I think. I prefer the ranged damage dealers.
I've heard good things about all the tank classes actually. They all have their own unique abilities. The marauder's abilities are a bit more extreme than the others though with the morphing arms and such.


I've never been able to get into ranged combat. Always just feels too wimpy to me (not calling anyone wimpy here, just my opinion of ranged combat). Of course, the game play in LOTRO hasn't helped that much as that game seriously favors the ranged players on one side (even gives them a skill with no induction, useable every thirty minutes that instantly transports them out of combat). I can't wait to get my computer in so I can get this game started up and test out some of the classes.

[Renmazuo]

I thought the point of hitting things hard was for 'them' to die? ;)

A lot of people loved the marauder class, but I couldn't get into it. Just not my thing I think. I prefer the ranged damage dealers.
I've heard good things about all the tank classes actually. They all have their own unique abilities. The marauder's abilities are a bit more extreme than the others though with the morphing arms and such.

I kinda have this thing for not retreating. As soon as someone is down, I move on. So I rarely drop combat if possible. But I have good strafing skills thanks to that :D

[Noleader]

I agree Matt, I always said, they needed a DAoC Server with only the SI expansion, I will always remember the nights we farmed the hell out of Formo (sp?) pling toons with my chanter and your druid bot =) Those were the days and I miss them =(

Brey, Neg, Nukor, and I have been playing the BGs a lot on the classic server... Brey and I got two hunters in the 39 BG all twinked out. Neg is working on lvling one right now :D

Should come back and have some fun. Hell it only took me 1 and 1/2 days to get my hunter from 1 to 39 :D

[Kegg OBeer]

I kinda have this thing for not retreating. As soon as someone is down, I move on. So I rarely drop combat if possible. But I have good strafing skills thanks to that :D

Maybe you should look at a heavier tank class with better armor? ;)

[Renmazuo]

Maybe you should look at a heavier tank class with better armor? ;)

I'm not a tank, I'm a grunt :D

[Kegg OBeer]

OK... Maybe you should consider a melee class that wears heavier armor? ;)

[Brey]

Brey, Neg, Nukor, and I have been playing the BGs a lot on the classic server... Brey and I got two hunters in the 39 BG all twinked out. Neg is working on lvling one right now :D

Should come back and have some fun. Hell it only took me 1 and 1/2 days to get my hunter from 1 to 39 :D

:hump: Yesssssssss... free gear if you do!! Good stuff too :-) ACer+Alch+SC (only 3 pt OC< but good nuff to cap ;) ) :cheese:

Next I will work on Tailor.... or mebbe WC ..... Hrmm :ack: