'Ladies' Night' Lawsuits

[Aelfwine]

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3412561&page=1

Roy Den Hollander is a New York lawyer who says Ladies' Night drinks and admission specials are unconstitutional, and he says he's suffered personally.

:bang:

The whole political correctness thing in America is way out of control. People like this should just stay home and shut up.

[Allison]

Yeah, it seems pretty silly to me. I mean honestly, people should choose their vattles more carefully. There's a lot of real disrimination going on out there in the world ... the sort that actually has a negative impact on people's lives.

What a waste of energy.

[Noleader]

It is silly but none the less valid. Do I think this should be in the court room; by all means no. There are many better things the court could, and should, be doing.

The reason I am interested in this is not so much cause I dislike that girls get in free or cheap (I never go to the club or bar) but that it will help women gain a more even (equal) footing with men. Anytime a group is treated special it makes other groups look at them as different and not equal.

[Allison]

I'm sure an argument could be made that since women, on the whole, are paid less than men (about 77 cents to the dollar), that Ladies Night just evens the scales a bit. ;)

Edit: Actually, that's not a bad idea. If I owned a bar, that's the tack I'd take. I'd find out what the wage gap is in my city, and then I'd issue a statement saying "In support of women's rights and equal pay, My bar will let women in free one night a week, until such time as they receive equal pay in the workforce." That way, my Ladies NIght policy might be covered under my right to political speech. It would be a political protest, see? The Supreme court has already said that money = speech. So why would this be any different?

I'm a friggin genius, I tell you ... a genius!!!

[Boom]

Omg, this is retarded. Ladies Night is a GOOD thing for guys.

This stoopid lawyer clearly doesn't get it. The purpose of Ladies Night isn't to discriminate against men and give ladies an unfair bonus. The purpose of Ladies Night is to get girls in the bar and get them drinking so that we can hit on them.

Saying that Ladies Night is unfair to guys is like saying that putting extra worms on the hooks is unfair to fishermen.

[Allison]

back in MY day, Ladies Night was more than just no cover charge. We got to drink free all night, too. Girls liked it because they didn't have to spend any money, and the guys liked it because they didn't have to buy girls drinks to get them drunk. Win win. :)

[Tammarion]

Boom should move to new york and start practising there. Between this and the $57 million dollar pants lawsuit, it looks like they'll let anyone chase an ambulance. :)

[Noleader]

The purpose of Ladies Night is to get girls in the bar and get them drinking so that we can hit on them.


Yea, because thats all women are useful for when it comes to supporting the entertainment industry... Just getting men that spend money in the door.

I know you did not mean that Boom, just using your statement to highlight my point about equality.

[Aelfwine]

I think Boom meant exactly what he said. Maybe its just me but you seem to be way off on this one.

[Noleader]

Stop thinking about it as "Well I like having lots of girls around in the bar" prespective and think about it from the prespective that bars are viewing women as nothing more then an object that will bring men in the door. Then those same women expect me not to treat them like objects in every other facet of their lives because they are 'equal' to me.

If you want to be equal you must be willing to take everything that goes along with it. If you want to be my peer in the work place then you better not accept being a object in your personal life.

[Allison]

I don't know, Noleader, I don't see it quite that way. The intention of the bar isn't to exploit women for the benefit of men, it's to get as many people in the bar as possible, both male and female. Women aren't "objects" in this scenario any more than the men are. This isn't an equality issue for women. You could argue it is for men, beause they're the ones getting the short end of the stick here (arguably), but it's not for women.

If you want to be equal you must be willing to take everything that goes along with it. If you want to be my peer in the work place then you better not accept being a object in your personal life.

What you're saying is that everyone should turn down any advantage they receive as the result of their sex. So, does that mean that if you, as a man, are getting paid more than your female counterpart, that you would refuse a raise? by your own statement, you should. I could just as easily say to you that If you want to be my peer in our personal lives then you better not accept being an object in the workplace. I don't see any men turning down raises in the name of equality, so why should women insist on paying a cover charge on Ladies NIght?

Tehnially, yes, Ladies Nights don't promote equality among the sexes. but there isn't any intent there to exploit anyone, or to unfairly discriminate based on sex. It's just a gimick to get people in the door so the bar can make more money. In the world of equality-among-the-sexes, it's a non-issue.

[Aelfwine]

If you want to be equal you must be willing to take everything that goes along with it. If you want to be my peer in the work place then you better not accept being a object in your personal life.

Why don't we just all neuter ourselves, then we can all be equal. Thats basically what this PC crap that you are supporting is trying to do.

[Aarimus]

This guy could give a rats ass about equality. He is in it for one reason only and this sentance says it all.


Hollander seeks to be the lead plaintiff and the representing attorney in a class-action suit against several Manhattan venues including the China Club, Copacabana Nightclub, A.E.R. Nightclub and Sol.


He is trying to jump on the band wagon of stupid useless lawsuits to line his pockets.

I'm all for stopping discrimnation but this has nothing to do with that. To me its just a marketing tool that has been used forever and if it bothers you then take your buisness elswhere. You have the freedom to decide which buisness to spent your money at and the owners have the right to their promotions.

[Golmacmourna]

this probably sounds stupid to alot of you, but I expect to be treated by women differently and to treat them differently, but not as objects--as objectives.

In my opinion, the only reason you have biological separation of male and female where you can tell the difference between the two is because there is some kind of payoff for doing it. Alot of the time, in the wild, females are larger and stronger, and the purpose of the male is merely to fertilize and then go away. The power and capability of survival is wholly within the female. In some cases, like ants, it's at an extreme, where one female acts as the birthing organs, dozens of other females act in the interest of survival and nurturing, and males exist for a few hours just to spawn and die.

In the human case, along with other apes, the male is stronger.

To me that means a responsibility. Not just to provide for and defend a female, but to die for females in general. The integrity of our society (in my mind) is bought by males who purposely are designed to die and sacrifice to make sure that the females and children are as well cared for as possible. We are wired to desire stress and danger and feel exhilarated when we're in certain kinds of pain. At the same time, we're designed to be emotionally needy and have a desire to rely on females for purpose and direction.

To that end, I'm not just eager to provide special treatment to women, I'm overeager. I'm proud of the fact that, unlike a woman, I don't need or care about justification for giving something up. Women are all about providing in a relationship, with an understanding that there will be reciprocation. Men are about providing without real expectation--only hope. Women are objectives, they are not equal, and they have no duty to do any given thing just because you've done X Y or Z. It is a challene and a focus for life to gain recognition in the eyes of a good woman, and to be desired by her. The less of my help a woman actually needs, the more I want to provide.

And this has nothing to do with civilized business. I don't care about women working or not working or where or how. Do whatever you want, get paid the same, and it's none of my business. Only when it comes to direct male-female interaction do I think the lopsided approach is correct.

Which isn't to say that I love the idea of trying and trying and getting strung along. I think that's bullshit. But I think finding a woman who isn't into that kind of bullshit, but, by the same token, is not easy to impress is exactly what I'm here for, and I want to be paired with her so that there is no question of 2 people doing their own thing and, coincidentally, being married or whatever. It's a unit--a single person with two parts that each provide something useful, and operates together to have a family and make a life.

As far as I'm concerned it's always ladies night.

[Rooster]

Dude, you're deep... Hehe

[Golmacmourna]

the better to be full of shit? :D

[Noleader]

I don't know, Noleader, I don't see it quite that way. The intention of the bar isn't to exploit women for the benefit of men, it's to get as many people in the bar as possible, both male and female. Women aren't "objects" in this scenario any more than the men are. This isn't an equality issue for women. You could argue it is for men, beause they're the ones getting the short end of the stick here (arguably), but it's not for women.

What you're saying is that everyone should turn down any advantage they receive as the result of their sex. So, does that mean that if you, as a man, are getting paid more than your female counterpart, that you would refuse a raise? by your own statement, you should. I could just as easily say to you that If you want to be my peer in our personal lives then you better not accept being an object in the workplace. I don't see any men turning down raises in the name of equality, so why should women insist on paying a cover charge on Ladies NIght?

Tehnially, yes, Ladies Nights don't promote equality among the sexes. but there isn't any intent there to exploit anyone, or to unfairly discriminate based on sex. It's just a gimick to get people in the door so the bar can make more money. In the world of equality-among-the-sexes, it's a non-issue.

It seems in this world, atleast based off my experience, that the bar for equality for everything is set at what white males get. As such most people view equal by comparing themselves to the white male group. This issue, in my mind, is the same as all equality issues.

It is like Selective Service, Affirmative Action, and so many other programs that we have. It seems people only want to be equal when they can not be better then equal. My contention is if you want to be equal then be equal and only equal. Only thing items of inequality promote is continued resentment and inequality. Like I said in my first post... I never go to the bar or club so I really do not care if there is a ladies night or not. I am also a white male so it really does not effect me all that much on how far the equality movements get. I just know that when you are trying to become equal the best way is to prove you are and not promote programs that highlight how you are not.

Why don't we just all neuter ourselves, then we can all be equal. Thats basically what this PC crap that you are supporting is trying to do.
So basically what you are saying is the only way you would view a woman as equal to you is if they grew a penis or you chopped yours off?

[Aelfwine]

So basically what you are saying is the only way you would view a woman as equal to you is if they grew a penis or you chopped yours off?

I am saying this ideal of equality between sexes that you seem to be pushing is ludicrous. It is not in our natures. If you want it to be then remove all traces of testosterone from men and estrogen from women. Equality in compensation and under the law fine, but things like this Ladies Night suite are ridiculous. Whats next? No Hooters? No Playboy? Might as well cut of our nuts if thats where this is going.

[spyder913]

ladies night is definitely for the benefit of the men -- I don't know why anyone would legitimately try to sue over this (not that I think it has a chance of winning)