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Dreadlox
01-04-2007, 05:39 PM
Bush claims right to open people's mail
The "signing statement" is contrary to law and contradicts the bill he just signed, experts said.
By James Gordon Meek New York Daily News
Article Last Updated: 01/03/2007 08:39:32 PM MST

Washington - President Bush has quietly claimed sweeping new powers to open Americans' mail without a judge's warrant, the New York Daily News has learned.

The president asserted his new authority when he signed a postal reform bill into law on Dec. 20. Bush then issued a "signing statement" that declared his right to open people's mail under emergency conditions.

That claim is contrary to existing law and contradicted the bill he had just signed, say experts who have reviewed it.

Bush's move came during the winter congressional recess and a year after his secret domestic electronic eavesdropping program was first revealed. It caught Capitol Hill by surprise.

"Despite the president's statement that he may be able to circumvent a basic privacy protection, the new postal law continues to prohibit the government from snooping into people's mail without a warrant," said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., the incoming House Government Reform Committee chairman, who co-sponsored the bill.

Experts said the new powers could be easily abused and used to vacuum up large amounts of mail.

"The signing statement claims authority to open domestic mail without a warrant, and that would be new and quite alarming," said Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies in Washington.

"The danger is they're reading Americans' mail," she said.

"You have to be concerned," agreed a career senior U.S. official who reviewed the legal underpinnings of Bush's claim. "It takes Executive Branch authority beyond anything we've ever known."

A top Senate Intelligence Committee aide promised, "It's something we're going to look into."

Most of the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act deals with mundane reform measures. But it also explicitly reinforced protections of first-class mail from searches without a court's approval.

Yet in his statement Bush said he will "construe" an exception, "which provides for opening of an item of a class of mail otherwise sealed against inspection in a manner consistent ... with the need to conduct searches in exigent circumstances."

Bush cited as examples the need to "protect human life and safety against hazardous materials and the need for physical searches specifically authorized by law for foreign intelligence collection."

White House spokeswoman Emily Lawrimore denied Bush was claiming any new authority.

"In certain circumstances - such as with the proverbial 'ticking bomb' - the Constitution does not require warrants for reasonable searches," she said.

Bush, however, cited "exigent circumstances" which could refer to an imminent danger or a long-standing state of emergency.

Critics point out the administration could quickly get a warrant to search targeted mail, and the Postal Service could block delivery in the meantime.

I'm already installing cameras in my house for my goverment. No need to wait till the "home goverment camera bill" to be past. I'm sure camera prices will sky rocket when that happends. So why wait.

Americans are now :fuct:

Noleader
01-04-2007, 07:30 PM
But we all trust Bush here... no worries I am sure our government will not abuse it. They will only check the terrorist's mail.

Tammarion
01-04-2007, 11:40 PM
Just when you think he's gotten over the urge that drives most people to doodle or paint graffiti, Bush does something stupid like this. I really wonder if they've replaced his lawyers with bobble-heads.

I mean, I agree with the "ticking bomb" idea, where you can stamp all over the rest of the rights in order to protect the right to not be massively irradiated, but for heaven's sake, it doesn't need to be written down! If Jack frickin' Bauer goes and saves Washington DC from becoming a crater, or plagueville or whatever, ya, I really want to be the guy who tries to pin a civil rights charge on him.

Allison
01-05-2007, 12:08 AM
:rolleyes:

Solomente
01-05-2007, 08:02 AM
Are you afraid if they read your mail they'll see the love letters you've been typing to all those terrorists??!

cogsliastro
01-05-2007, 03:18 PM
Are you afraid if they read your mail they'll see the love letters you've been typing to all those terrorists??!

no...im afraid that my constitutional rights will be systematically extinguished with every thing they deem "the fight on terror"

]LoL[Harm
01-05-2007, 03:23 PM
I've decided in order to make sure that I'm visible at all times and that when I go to the airport that they will never fear I'm concealing anything, that I will go live in house made of glass and I will no longer wear any clothing. (this should definitely help me get through lines faster in the airport.)

I'm also going to CC the white house on all my emails I send out and all my forum postings (they are receiving a copy of this very one)

Allison
01-05-2007, 07:16 PM
LoL[Harm;139059']

I'm also going to CC the white house on all my emails I send out and all my forum postings (they are receiving a copy of this very one)

LOL! We should all do that! :rolly:

MickeyFinn
01-06-2007, 09:46 PM
Hillary is going to have a lot of "un-tangling" to do when she takes office

Rooster
01-07-2007, 12:44 AM
Yall know that they were opening all mail sent overseas during WWII yes? Or was that a violation of our rights and illegal?

Pfft.

We're at war. If we lose - we may as well give up any thought of maintaining our way of life. Your choice.

Noleader
01-07-2007, 03:11 AM
We're at war. If we lose - we may as well give up any thought of maintaining our way of life. Your choice.

So it is ok to win and give up our way of life? The rights our fathers and their fathers fought and died for? The rights that men 200+ years ago revolted to gain. The rights we have been so willing to die for all these years are so disposable that you see nothing wrong with doing away with them.

Rooster please heed my warning... Government NEVER gives back willingly what they take away. It is a slick slope and once you start down the path it takes DECADES to undo, if ever. History has shown time and time again that war is just a good guise for stripping rights because people will think it makes them safer.

If anything during times of war we should be more vigilent in protecting our rights and preserving our freedoms. Voting citizens and repersentivies can be the greatest enemies to freedom..

Rooster
01-07-2007, 11:20 AM
So by your argument, martial law should never be allowed. That would be taking away our freedoms.

Sometimes, things are necessary. Is this one of them? I dont know. I dont really care because in all honesty, it won't affect the public in a negative way.

I've worked for the government (in the military) and I know for a fact that they are so swamped with work they dont have idle time to go sifting through stuff that has nothing to do with the issue at hand (Bush stated above that it is only to be used to protect American interests).

Course, with the lack of honor and honesty that some people (most likely liberals) have shown in government to leak confidential information (a serious crime) - you may be right. I wouldn't trust a liberal with any more power than my 7 year old son.

Noleader
01-07-2007, 01:24 PM
I think you forget about the ex-CIA agent that Bush's admin leaked the name of...

Rooster the quicker you come to accept both republicans and democrates suck the better off you will be.

Look how far Bush is going to hide information, which was always public before this administration:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/05/white.house.visitors.ap/index.html

Noleader
01-07-2007, 01:29 PM
Sometimes, things are necessary. Is this one of them? I dont know. I dont really care because in all honesty, it won't affect the public in a negative way.

This might not affect the public in any negative way, but the next bill they pass (that is upheld because of legal pressitant set by this law) might.

Post
01-07-2007, 02:04 PM
"Sometimes, things are necessary. Is this one of them? I dont know."

Then it isn't necessary. Being sure to take our freedoms away and being necessary to take our freedoms away kinda go hand in hand. I mean, at best, you're middle of the road (and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt). If a middle-of-the-road guy isn't sure that these freedoms need to be taken away, then that's a huge red flag there.

Allison
01-07-2007, 11:48 PM
Rooster the quicker you come to accept both republicans and democrats suck the better off you will be.



Amen to that, brother.

Sayj
01-08-2007, 03:24 PM
Amen to that, brother.

I'm sorry. I don't agree with that at all. It's people that suck, not just politicians.

Allison
01-08-2007, 05:46 PM
If people suck, and politicians are people, then politicians suck. Yes?

Solomente
01-08-2007, 06:44 PM
We're at war. If we lose - we may as well give up any thought of maintaining our way of life.

My way of life doesn't come remotely close to anything that might be achieved through any of the tactics the current administration has employed under the guise of protecting Americans from terrorists. Excuse me now while I go eat tea and crumpets with a suicide bomber.

MickeyFinn
01-10-2007, 04:04 PM
Seriously. If any more B.S. like the Patriot Act come down the pipeline, I might just sign up for the other side

Dreadlox
01-10-2007, 10:53 PM
Seriously. If any more B.S. like the Patriot Act come down the pipeline, I might just sign up for the other side

I'm down for that.

]LoL[Harm
01-11-2007, 10:19 AM
At least Roo will be loyal to the bitter end. Put all your trust in the Government Roo! ALL HAIL THE GOVERNMENT, IT NEVER DOES ANYTHING WRONG OR EXTRANEOUS!

I trust the Government as far as I can throw it, and as big as it has gotten under the current administration (and let me guess, they have to hire more people on now so they can sift through our mail) I'll never even get it off the ground.

MickeyFinn
01-17-2007, 02:16 AM
Little pushes like this are making the terrorists seem more and more right. Seems to me like we should be celebrating more freedom, instead of giving them a f***ing helping hand