Last Throes

[]LoL[Harm]

Recently heard that the insurgency was in its last throes...oh wait, that was over a year ago.

I'm sure by now that it has to be in its last throes!

We have a delusional administration. And it's wearing America thin.

[Aelfwine]

Their not delusional. They knew\know exactly what is going on. They are just doing what politicians do. Paint the best picture they can. In the real world we call it lieing:cheese:

[]LoL[Harm]

I'm starting to think these guys in power are starting to believe the words they are saying. Either that or they're morons. Morons or deluded folk, one or the other. I can't see them as being in control or making well informed intelligent decisions; because the results of their decisions are not bearing any fruit.

[Tammarion]

I think we're falling into unrealistic expectations now. As long as theres a US presence, theres gonna be an insurgency. Its like US bases in Japan. 50+ years later, and local politicians are still trying to make their bones by protesting against the US presence - its just that Iraq politics involves bullets and bombs, more often than not.

With each day I see the Iraq not-quite-a-government bicker over who gets the fancy chair, the more I'm thinking "oh goody. They've got a democracy. Time to leave."

Seriously folks, what the hell is the goalpost now? 0 americans killed in 1 month? - a rather stupid and unrealistic goal. By that standard, the US has an active insurgency.

A working democracy? One that won't crumble the instant we turn our back? - again, how do we know thats gonna happen until we do leave.

All I can hope is that someones writing down the lessons from Iraq - #1. Don't fire everyone in the army, 50% unemployment overnight sucks. Because this won't be the last exercise in 'nation building' that people will have to face, and lessons are about the only war booty we're allowed to bring home these days.

[PoxTheSmall]

Though, in the history of humanity, you'd think that that lesson'd been learned already. I remember several years ago, when Bush announced victory in Iraq. How funny was that?

I'm glad we blew in there like a cowboy at the drop of a hat with both guns blazing.

[Tammarion]

Again, it all depends on what our goals are.

In a few years, I suspect we'll be doing our version of Israel's pullout from Gaza. Not militarily forced out, but just tired of herding cats.

I mean put it in perspective - any 'progress' in nation building in Iraq is currently on hold, not because of any bodies being piled up, but the Iraqi parliments inability to form a government. And theres dick-all the US Army can do about that.

[Aelfwine]

Though, in the history of humanity, you'd think that that lesson'd been learned already.

Thats why politicians should not be mostly lawyers and bussiness men. We need people who majored in history(of course its the american people that are to blame for electing the same assholes over and over; they never learn from the past too). Bush and them guys do not know the first thing about foreign policy and they demonstrate their ignorance every day. Its like a bull in a china shop.

[Allison]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. Just look at how downtown Baghdad is thriving!

[Boom]

LOL!!! Time to play what's wrong with that picture!

[Post]

"Seriously folks, what the hell is the goalpost now?"

I think the original criticism isn't based upon us not reaching the goalpost, but rather, the fact that it was stupid to act as if goalpost was close to being reached (regardless of if it can be reached or not).

If we weren't close to the goalpost, then I'm pissed off that they stated that. The fact that we're close now or if it's impossible to be that close without leaving is inconsequential.

[Boom]

At this point the goalpost is just for us to admit reality. We can't deal with things until we are realistic about the situation.

Didn't Cheney very recently say that all of his statements about Iraq (including the last throes one) were correct?

We can't even consider dealing with the goal of resolving the Iraq situation as long as we keep kidding ourselves about how bad it really is over there.

[PoxTheSmall]

LOL!!! Time to play what's wrong with that picture!

Where's Waldo? Seriously, what am I missing...the fact that there are like 4 people in downtown?

[Grundy]

Its a picture of Istanbul, Turkey. Anyone can see that!

1) none of the cars in the picture have been blown up recently
2) the chick is not wearing a traditional head covering.


More here: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002274257

[Boom]

Republican candidate posted that picture on his website as proof that the media is distorting everything and that things in Bagdad are really peachy.

But, like Grundy said, the picture turned out to be from a completely different country.

[Tammarion]

Shrug - could be worse - insurgants could be kidnapping GI Joe dolls!

[Tammarion]

What I'm saying though is just imagine GW's wet dream. Baghdad full of playing children and chocolate, ticker tape parades showing off the last US soldiers leaving Iraq....

Then 1 day later, a tape from Osama praising the glorious Iraqi resistance and throwing off the shackles of imperialism, blah blah blah.

Without goalposts, its like a Swifty vs Post thread.

In the same vein, take the reasons for invading - WMD, terrorism, Saddam=bad, democracy=good. Now pretend there are no US troops in Iraq atm. What would be the rationale for sending in US troops? And wouldn't a lack of that rationale be a good enough reason for pulling them out? The only reason for keeping them there is to prop up the democracy - which is being held up by a bunch of people who measure their coolness by how many americans their guys can blow up, and who can sit in the Oil Ministers seat and collect bribes.

[Post]

"But, like Grundy said, the picture turned out to be from a completely different country."

Oh, it gets worse. I guess he stated that it was his webmaster that posted the wrong picture. Yet the image was named "sm_DowntownBaghdad.JPG".

[Tammarion]

Being a supporter of the Iraqi war is like being a Starcraft: Ghost fan. Drooling at every positive picture, screaming Blizzard knows that they're doing to anyone complaning about how the release date gets pushed back and back, then bam - the whole projects on the back burner and probably gonna get cancelled. :(

[Allison]

Starcraft ... :rolly:

[Tammarion]

http://www.gucomics.com/archives/view.php?cdate=20060328

[Noleader]

Picture is broken :/

Starcraft owns btw!

[spyder913]

Without goalposts, its like a Swifty vs Post thread.
HAH!

[Boom]

Tamm, I totally agree with what you are saying. It's hard to say whether our Iraq policy is a failure or a success when we can not even define reasonable goals for our Iraq policy.

But I don't think that is the point of this thread. I think the point of this thread is that some people (Bush Administration and its hardcore supporters) are in total denial about the current state of affairs in Iraq. They were wrong when they tried to convince us it would be a quick and easy operation and they are wrong now when they say their previous statements weren't wrong. They are wrong when they say the media is distorting things and that things aren't really that bad in Iraq. Things are really bad in Iraq.

That doesn't mean our policy is a failure. Maybe things have to be really bad in Iraq for a long time before it gets better and in the long run our policy will be a success. That is fine. But when Cheney says all his previous statements about how Iraq wouldn't be a big mess were correct, I have a problem.

This thread isn't about whether our Iraq policy is a success or a failure. This thread is about whether or not the Bushies are delusional about the mess in Iraq.

[]LoL[Harm]

Yeah, what Boom said. Our leaders can't admit to us the reality of a situation. Last I checked, denying the state of reality is a form of delusion. :)

[Tammarion]

Its not paranoia if they really are out to get you :D

[Tammarion]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4865344.stm

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has admitted the US has made thousands of tactical errors in Iraq, but said it was right to remove Saddam Hussein.

[Boom]

Yep, thousands of mistakes. Yet Bush has been giving out medals to those responsible and saying that they have been doing a heck of a job. Has the administration fired anyone or even reprimanded anyone responsible for these thousands of mistakes?

Thousands of mistakes over 3 years and this is the first real admission of it. I have a feeling Bush and Cheney aren't too happy about Condi saying this, it flies in the face of just about everything (not everything, but just about everything) they have been saying for the last 3 years.

For the last 3 years anytime anyone has claimed that any mistakes were made in Iraq they were called traitors and accused of helping our enemies. Now Condi admits that thousands of mistakes were made. Will apologies be issued to the critics of the administration who have been pretty much accused of treason for daring to discuss these mistakes over the last 3 years?

When congressional vietnam vets said that we were making mistakes in Iraq they were called Michael Moores by the Bush Administration, yet now Condi says we have made thousands of mistakes.

I'm noticing that none of the conservative bloggers seem to have a problem with Condi saying that (most of them aren't covering it at all). How do you think they would react if Howard Dean or John Kerry said that we have made thousands of mistakes in Iraq? I have a feeling they would be freaking out and saying that its more proof that democrats want the terrorists to win. That's what they say anytime a democrat dares to suggest that the administration has made any mistakes.

[Tammarion]

Shrug. Bush has a new chief of staff, Ashcroft is no longer around.

Its a poisonous political atmosphere where no one will admit to making mistakes - people can point and laugh at the emperors new clothes all they want, but the instant he says hes nekkid, then theres trouble.

It started with OMG monica blowjob, and has only gotten worse since.

[]LoL[Harm]

Oh I wish I had a Robot Overlord.